ChaseN

Hey guys

Looking for a set of dedicated track wheels to replace the 16" C2 wheels I've got for autoX/track duty now. My first preference is/was Cup I's, but DAMN, prices on a set in the sizes I'd want (7.5/8's & 9's) are through the stratosphere! Seems that most want $1200+ for the set. I have a hard time getting rid of that kind of money for a set of 20 year old wheels. Tire Rack shows almost nothing I'm interested in, and only have one wheel in 17" at all. Any cheap(er) options out there in 17" with correct widths & offsets, that don't weigh a ton? How are the various Cup I replicas? Any reasonably priced alternatives? Cup II's seem significantly cheaper, and I've got a straight set set I could pick up for a song, but not they are chrome, are in REAL rough shape (too rough for track wheels even IMO) & I'm not crazy about that particular look on a 964...

Thanks!

Chase

Marc Shaw

Chase,

I have 2 sets of 17" Boxster twist rims for sale. If you're at all interested in paying shipping from Canada, I'll post more info.

Marc

sml

weight is important .. try these ...

http://blog.tirerack.com/blog/porsch...-for-the-track

ChaseN

Marc,

I appreciate the offer, but if I'm going to go for an OEM wheel, I'll probably pop for the Cup II's a buddy of mine needs to offload. Just got to look past the fact that they are chrome and somewhat dingy, a quick rattlecan effort would take care of the chrome part anyhow, I think.

Thanks, these would be nearly perfect, (great look, great price) but they only come in 18's for our cars...trying to stick with 17's as the factory intended, not to mention tires are cheaper. I guess no affordable aftermarket alternatives in 17" exist I would love a set of Fikse or Joengbloed's, but I'm a poor b*stard in track-addiction freefall who needs tires, a cage, seats, etc...

Marc Shaw

No prob.

Marc

ChaseN

Well, I picked up the chrome 993 Cups on the way home, gosh they are ugly (and hard to fit the 4 into a 964 ). Gonna scuff 'em up and maybe paint 'em white, something different I guess...

cobalt

Sorry i didn't read this earlier but why the need to stay with factory wheels and 17's?

For starters I would never use a chromed wheel for track use. You can have a wheel begin to fail and never see it with all the chrome buildup. The cup II's are not much lighter than the cup I's and i am sure if you weigh them they weigh more than painted cup I's now that they have been plated.

You get much better feel and less sidewall flex with 18's I am using fikse's and they work better than the 8 & 9's CupI''s I have. Much less un-sprung weight, better turn in and yes the tires are slightly more expensive but not much.

The OZ's posted are the wheel of choice for most 964 track guys I know. Great price well made and durable. I would never compromise tires wheels or brakes for a small amount of money. Safety first. Yes you can use 18's on the track even though it is not recommended by Porsche. I have thousands of track miles on 18's and no issues at all.

Not trying to upset you but I think you will find you will be far happier with the OZ's than the Cup II's.

Fikse Wheels

If you can justify the extra $$ I would be happy to help you with your track wheel needs.

race911

I'm back to running some old Cup 1s on the faux RS since I have 3 sets of old (but new) 17" tires that are worth burning up at instruction days. Can't say I'm any slower than with the 18s, and actually my fastest times with the car were one time with some 245/275 17s right in their sweet spot.

I've got some old HRE 8 & 9 X 17 for 964 application that don't fit over Big Reds, up at the track. I'll be up there Friday, and if you're totally bummed about the chrome ones you picked up I can take some photos.

Ragnar Joensen

I agree that 18" will give better feel and less sidewall flexing, compared 1 on 1 to 17". But something that often is forgotten in this respect is that narrow rims and wide tyres also give sidewall flexing. Often to an extent, where a narrower tyre would have been better.

I also agree in respect to the weight. But an earlier post in ths thread suggested the Boxster twist 17" OEM's and they are a very good alternative.

They are cheap because they are ... well ... not pretty.

They are light. 7" ET55 are 18.0 lbs (Cup 1: 20.5 lbs) and 9" ET55 are 21.4 lbs (Cup 1: 26.0 lbs). They even come in 8.5" ET50.

18" rims are wider for the same application, giving an inherent weight disadvantage. For comparison the famous 964 Turbo 3.6 Speedlines are 25.4 lbs (8" ET52) and 26.8 lbs (10" ET61).

17" tyres are cheaper than 18".

17" tyres are lighter than 18" tyres. Michelin PS2 225/45-17 are 22.2 lbs (235/40-18 are 23. lbs) and 255/40-17 are 23.3 lbs (265/40-18 are 25.9 lbs). Again the increased width of the 18" are a disadvantage, but those are the dimensions You get.

I vote for the 17" Boxster twists and more money on good tyres.

I have used this weight information: http://www.944racing.de/felgengewichte.php

cobalt

I agree with your source. Ironically you have chosen several wheel and tire setups that I own. I would never use a set of speedlines for track wheels. I own several sets and have them on my 3.6T they are beautiful wheels albeit heavy but not much heavier than your average Porsche factory wheel. Besides being too heavy for track use they are too rare and costly. I use them on my street car but would never use them on the track. I also use 7.5 & 9 Cup I's on my GTS both my speedlines and Cup I's have MPS2's on them in the sizes you quoted.

Despite all of this when considering I am using 8 & 9.5 x 18 and 8 & 10 x 18 fikse's with Toyo R888's on them in 225/265 sizes and they are weighing in at less than or slightly over 40 pounds per corner vs my set of 8 & 9 cup I's in 17" size using 235/275 (total cost difference for 18's over 17's cost me $200) (or a price savings of $235 if using 225/255 x 17) weighing in at 45.5 and 51.6 (actual weight of tire and rim per my scale) pounds per corner or a weight savings of over 6 pounds per front and 9 pounds per rear is considerable and more than noticeable on the track and IMO worth the extra money. Acceleration is improved and IMO reducing unsprung weight is one of the best improvements you can make the feeling is worth the money spent and is negligible when considering what we spend going to the track.

Yes I can drive just as fast on both but if I don't feel as comfortable driving on a set of tires and wheels why bother and why not enjoy the experience as much as possible when I consider the mileage i get out of a set of track tires we are really talking less than 1/2 cent per mile. So like I said why skimp on comfort and performance for such an insignificant amount of money. If you are going far enough to buy dedicated wheels and tires why not get the best bang for your buck, I say.

But that is just my $ 0.005 worth.

race911

You've run data both ways? If you've got AIM, I'd love to see it, even if it's on a track I'm not familiar with. Maybe I'm too much of a Neanderthal, but I don't see the big deal. Unfortunately for tomorrow I've only got the old Hoosiers on Cup 1 replica 17s, and RA1s on Kinesis for the 18s, else I'd swap them out and post for anyone to compare. (This is in the context of 2:02 Thunderhill full/1:41 Laguna/1:49 Sears pace.)

KaiB

or a weight savings of over 6 pounds per front and 9 pounds per rear

Ken, I might argue that this is both validly noticeable via both seat-o-the-pants and data system.

Have no proof, of course, but the above is considerable.

race911

So you have data? It was too expensive when I raced the RSA, back in the Stone Age. What I do know is that I held lap records in (then) PCA D stock with the car, both times being set with the above-mentioned replica Cup 1s/Hoosiers. I get that track conditions vary wildly, and contribute heavily. (I never had 18s for that car, but I ran against cars that did.) The other 17s I had available were the HREs I mentioned are still around, and ARE significantly lighter. (2:04 Thunderhill/1:43 Laguna/1:51 Sears were the times with that car.)

cobalt

Unfortunately, I don't use AIM otherwise I would and as much as I wish I could say I am a consistent enough driver that anyone would pay me money to drive, alas I cannot. So without proof to share I will leave it to KaiB.

Much more so than I original thought it would be, add the 4 pounds per corner i saved with the aluminum hats on the brakes and I can't imagine going back. now if I can only get through the driver improvement program and drop those extra pounds i might actually be fast.