Singer 911 - base most of the future Singer 911 production on the 964 chassis
06-30-2011, 05:45 AM
#16
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What decisions does someone like Rob Dickinson or 9M make deciding which shell to use?
Would Rob D. say, "creating a backdated car using the 964 shell causes us a lot more cosmetic problems, but the dramatic increase in shell strength provides the car with a improved suspension base as well much more modern brake system (ABS). The improvements in the cars dynamic far outweigh the 75 lbs. weight disadvantage of using the 964 shell."
Would Rob D. say, "creating a backdated car using the 964 shell causes us a lot more cosmetic problems, but the dramatic increase in shell strength provides the car with a improved suspension base as well much more modern brake system (ABS). The improvements in the cars dynamic far outweigh the 75 lbs. weight disadvantage of using the 964 shell."
9m would say:
"Our decision would be made entirely on a maximum performance to cost basis, at which point the choice to start with a 964 chassis is a complete no brainer. The 964 outperforms the early 911 in every department apart from weight, hence the only real job we have to do is work out how to build it light & fast, but I think we've got that covered?"
PS: you can't use a 993 because of the raised front & rear decks and re-angled scuttle panel.
06-30-2011, 09:35 AM
#17
I think the Singer serves a totally different purpose however and in fact one that is so unique that it would be stupid imo to move into 964 based 'conversions' that so many companies on so many levels are active in and risk losing much of their niche position:
Singer plays really strongly with vehicle design. Almost similar to what Chip Foose does to US cars, really clean lines...as much adding as deleting, cool cross-over details like heuer clocks.....and throwing in the Porsche equivalent of a 572 crate engine for good measure.
This all has very little to do with 10/10th trackdriving. The appeal to me of such an almost cartoonish work of art/design is far more appealing on a car of 60's/70's origin rather than 25 years later since the actual transformation into something that performs as good (on the street) as it looks is far more involving.....therefore almost giving the car instant character/soul. Accordingly I'd equally love to have an early Singer in my garage as well!
However, it looks to me that Singer is indeed decidedly moving away from the 'soul' of their early demonstraters and trade character for scalability / easier assembly runs (change to 964 / change of suppliers) in order to produce large(r) numbers and actually make some money in the process.
Without genuine love poured into a product true performance is only a Nissan GTR away...
07-14-2011, 06:07 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
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"an agreement with composite experts Aria Group to prepare, paint and deliver carbon fibre bodies for Singer 911s."
Surely Porsche won't be best pleased with that plan? Not much they can do about people modifying existing chassis, but creating new '911s' from scratch is anothr thing altogether.
Surely Porsche won't be best pleased with that plan? Not much they can do about people modifying existing chassis, but creating new '911s' from scratch is anothr thing altogether.
07-14-2011, 06:26 AM
#20
Burning Brakes
As I understand it Singer were experiencing some handling difficulties with their cars ? Unsurprising really as the ST and RSRs from the early seventies were designed by Porsche AG as race winning cars not boulevard cruisers and fast road cars.
9" and 11" slicks and big wheel offsets don't make for good bed partners when you're looking for streetable driving manners.
I'm sure that with some major re-engineering and some top quality dampers the desired effect could be had. But ultimately the 964 is a far superior platform on which to base the car. If the factory (Stuttgart) thought they could have evolved the earlier car into what was required, I'm sure they would have done, clearly they didn't and the 964 was born out necessity.
Strange how the much maligned 964 is now seeing a rennaisance . . . .
So what's the deal with using Cosworth rather than 9M sourced engines/components I wonder ?
9" and 11" slicks and big wheel offsets don't make for good bed partners when you're looking for streetable driving manners.
I'm sure that with some major re-engineering and some top quality dampers the desired effect could be had. But ultimately the 964 is a far superior platform on which to base the car. If the factory (Stuttgart) thought they could have evolved the earlier car into what was required, I'm sure they would have done, clearly they didn't and the 964 was born out necessity.
Strange how the much maligned 964 is now seeing a rennaisance . . . .
So what's the deal with using Cosworth rather than 9M sourced engines/components I wonder ?
07-14-2011, 06:27 AM
#21
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Don't know if Volkswagen really care... Numbers continue to be too low. On the other hand I like to have one carbonfibre shell as well . Btw, how much experience have cosworth with aircooled engines ?
. Btw, how much experience have cosworth with aircooled engines ?
07-14-2011, 08:03 AM
#22
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Aria are the carbon fibre specialists who had a hand in making the panels, their job is to take the 911/964 shell, fit the new panels and paint it ready to build.
I recommended to Rob that he source a US engine builder due to the logistical (& fiscal) nightmare of shipping engines across the Pond, however my recommendation was also based on a probable conflict of interest with respect to the cars, engines & electronic systems that 9m are planning to build in the future. I was the one who initially suggested that they transfer to a 964 platform after seeing the lengths that they had gone to in fitting the early shell with a 993 gearbox & Rob's desire to make the cars safer by fitting ABS. I'm glad that they appear to have things sorted and wish them well, there's certainly no animosity in their decision to move on, but I will look on with interest as to how a "modern" company gets on with an old engine design....
I recommended to Rob that he source a US engine builder due to the logistical (& fiscal) nightmare of shipping engines across the Pond, however my recommendation was also based on a probable conflict of interest with respect to the cars, engines & electronic systems that 9m are planning to build in the future. I was the one who initially suggested that they transfer to a 964 platform after seeing the lengths that they had gone to in fitting the early shell with a 993 gearbox & Rob's desire to make the cars safer by fitting ABS. I'm glad that they appear to have things sorted and wish them well, there's certainly no animosity in their decision to move on, but I will look on with interest as to how a "modern" company gets on with an old engine design....
01-16-2013, 05:24 PM
#23
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Want, want! So proud this car is based on the 964 platform!
Modular body kits may become available next year?
Modular body kits may become available next year?
01-17-2013, 04:23 AM
#27
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I hadn't seen that video - just heavenly , wow !
01-17-2013, 12:56 PM
#29
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Loved the video. Just absolutely amazing to see the detail and work that goes into each car. The longer video was just great. Chris Harris on Cars is probably my favorite segment on Drive.
