mike9186

I just got back from a looooong wheel alignment at the Mavis. I did the Bilstein/H&R Green upgrade a few weeks ago.

The results ain't perfect which is why I'm posting them and looking for any input (this is all the info they gave me)

Front L - R
Camber -2.2 -1.8
Toe .21 .20

Rear L - R
Camber -1.2 -0.9
Toe .21 .22
Total Toe .43
Thrust Angle 0.0

The only numbers that seem way out of whack for a street car are the front camber. I guess the drop from the H&Rs limit the adjustability. Also the Pelican Parts front camber tool is also limited in the amount of camber it can deliver.

The car drives MUCH better than before and feels very planted in the corners.

Do these numbers look OK?

KaiB

Bushings?

christallon

Mike,

I'll post my numbers next week. I'm going in Monday morning for the full CB/Align treatment at the best place in So Cal, West End Alignment. I'm told Darin is the wizard.

You seem to have a lot more Neg camber than I thought would be possible w/o camber plates...perhaps I'm confused...

Richard Curtis

I'm going in Thursday for a corner balance and alignment. Will post the results then.

Unkle

According to the alignment i had carried out at Porsche, these are the "target settings". Your camber and rear toe look beyond the "target settings" I have, but i am just sharing the info and not sure what you may have asked for, or what is correct.

Version: Porsche Professionell V13.00.

Front Axle
Castor 20*= 4.25 (-/+ -.30, +0.15)
KPI 20* = 20.00
Toe out on turns = -1.50 (-/+ -0.30, +0.30)
Camber = -1.00 (-/+ -0.10, +0.10)
Cross camber = 0.10
Individual Toe = +0.13 (-/+ -0.03, +0.03)
Total Toe = +0.25 (-/+ -0.05, +0.05)
Setback = -0.05
Included Angle 20*= 19.18


Rear Axle
Camber = -1.15 (-/+ -0.10, +0.10)
Cross camber = 0.20
Individual Toe = +0.15 (-/+ -0.05, +0.05)
Total Toe = +0.30 (-/+ -0.05, +0.05)
Setback = -0.05


My front camber was -1.09 and -0.54
My rear camber was -1.21 and -1.09

Both within specs of each other +/- and the target setting from Porsche.

Hope this helps

mike9186

Thanks Unkle for the numbers. Are you running aftermarket suspension like me?

Unkle

I do have something similar, with Bilstein/Eibach set up

sml

I'm not sure the official Porsche specs are the ultimate specs .... just like the US ride height is probably not the ultimate ride height for many owners.

Looks like Unkle posted the RS specs (quite different to the C2/4, RS America and Speedster).

I managed to get -2 degrees of negative camber on the rear. This was the max we could achieve with a stock C4 with new coilovers.

On the front, I went -2 degrees (although I could have gone further with the adjustable plates on the JIC Cross coilovers).

We couldn't get to the 4.25' caster. Max we could get was about 2 from memory.

Will be monitoring tyre wear with the -2 degrees negative camber .. fingers crossed it is not too severe.

Unkle

No problem Mike

@sml
TBH i wasn't really implying Porsche specs were the best, just what i had it set to. I guess they set it to the optimum geometry for the height i was running (what ever that is). Curious to know why they choose to double the RS spec for camber? And how come they couldn't achieve the standard castor? I thought it was adjusted via the lower joint movement. But as long as you are happy with setup thats what counts...

sml

Before going to the alignment guy, I spent a few hours searching threads on the forum here for the specs that some of the knowledgeable guys were using. Some trustable & experienced guys were running & recommending -3 even with street tyres. As the RS cars were sold to be road registered, do you think the RS specs would be somewhat compromised to achieve even tyre wear?

I witnessed the alignment guy adjust the caster. He loosened the lower joint movement and I watched him try to push the setting to 4deg25' but it would only move to 2deg. I don't know the reason why? Maybe as it was RS-5mm ride height but I wouldn't have thought 5mm would make that much difference. Any ideas?

christallon

I'm just in from a trip to the Wizard Let me say, Darin & Chris at West End alignment in Gardena (So Cal) are fantastic!!! The best 4 hours I've spent with my car at a shop in a long time. Father & Son team went out of their way to involve me in every aspect of the Alignment & Cornerbalance process. They interviewed me on my driving style, experience, attitude, ride Ht etc., etc... We settled on a slightly higher than RS spec (read 25" +/- 1/8" from fender lip through center cap to driving surface). I am running 17" Cup 1's with Hankook Ventus R-S3 225/45/17 (F); 255/40/17 (R). I was sitting in the car the entire time. All 4 dimensions vary due to corner balance (weighting). I like this ride height because I have a slightly steep driveway, and this barely passes the high point, usually w/o rubbing. Oh, and I'm on a new set of KW V3's set at about 80% hard.

So here are the specs:

The car weighs 2951 Lbs with 5/8 tank and without my 215 Lb frame in it. I also pulled out the space saver tire, the tools and the air compressor. I would guess these weigh in at 48 Lbs or so. Let's call it 2,999 Lbs all in

The car weight is balanced @ 39.4% Front & 60.6% Rear, and 51% Drivers side (L) and 49% passenger side (R)

639 LF 608 RF
974 LR 944 RR
1583 Lbs even at cross angles

Front Axle: L / R
Camber 1.75 Neg 1.75 Neg
Caster 4.5 Pos 4.75 Pos
Toe In 1/32 Inch

Rear Axle:
Camber 1.6 Neg 1.6 Neg
Toe in 3/32

We opted for slightly more Neg camber given my aggressive driving style. I'll gladly give up moderate tire wear.

The car feels terrific, does not hunt, and mostly does not chase cracks. I wouldn't say you can nod off behind the wheel, but it sure doesn't require 110% either. I am very happy with the result and am looking forward to a run through Little Tujunga Canyon with my buddy in his 73 RS/S. This is how I will guage if the 964 is any faster than my 73 RS/E. Our early RS cars are almost identical in set-up and we are very evenly matched on experience, driving style and lap times. Will let you know.

Richard Curtis

As promised, here are alignment settings after I installed Bilstein HDs and H&R Green springs:

LF and RF camber 1.5 degrees
Caster was 3.8 degrees on both
Total toe was 0.09 degrees

LR and RR camber 2.0 degrees
Total toe 0.27 degrees

Vandit

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I wanted a grade on my recent alignment since i'm gonna get it re-done in a week.

Front
L/R
Camber: -1.71° / -1.68°
Castor: 4.28° / 4.28°
Toe: .22° / .22°
Total Toe: .44°

Rear
L/R
Camber: -1.23° / -1.31°
Toe: .20° / .17°
Total Toe: .37°


What do you guys think?

I had asked for zero toe in the front and minimal toe-in in the rear. Is my rear at a "minimal" or should I go for less toe-in? Obviously my front has toe-in, so I am going to push for true zero toe on the next round.

The rear camber is the reason i'm going to have it re-aligned. It has been a total fiasco due to incorrect information regarding the orientation of the spring plates. It needs more negative camber, -2.0° or better.

Vandit

Bump because the car is going back on the alignment rack this weekend.

I flipped the spring plates and negative camber looks plentiful now.

My main concern is toe. I'm going to aim for zero in front, but I'm unsure about rear toe-in amounts.

ja78911sc

Vandit, my recent alignment specs on my street/track car:

Front L/R

-1.6 / -1.6 Camber
3.3 / 3.2 Caster
Zero / Zero Toe

Rear L/R

-1.7 / -1.7 Camber
.22 / .25 Toe

I am very satisfied with the results on the track.