First 964 Track Day Disaster
10-13-2010, 03:50 AM
#31
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.. new chinese cheapest tyres
(c) i noticed a huge & surprising braking benefit when i perfected a few heel & toe downchanges. does this seem correct? could there be a brake bias issue? the car hasn't been driven hard for years. the brakes felt terrible initially, but after 10 laps, they started to work well & more as expected.
(c) i noticed a huge & surprising braking benefit when i perfected a few heel & toe downchanges. does this seem correct? could there be a brake bias issue? the car hasn't been driven hard for years. the brakes felt terrible initially, but after 10 laps, they started to work well & more as expected.
10-13-2010, 04:18 AM
#32
Good luck anyway
10-13-2010, 04:57 AM
#33
I think the extra 8 secs should be pretty easy for a 964. That would still be about 5 seconds slower than a WRX or M3 on a short track. 
And there is still big room for improvement with my driving.
And there is still big room for improvement with my driving.
10-13-2010, 06:07 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
Don't UTQG ratings correlate closely with speed ratings? I can't imagine that a 420 rating would be anywhere close to a Z-rated tire, and I'm surprised you would be allowed to run anything less than a Z-rated tire at a track day.
Follow "earlydays" 4-step plan. You need a good performing stock base before worrying about anything. It sounds like you've got far-underperforming tires, questionable brakes, a bad ride height / corner-balancing, and who-knows for an alignment. There are a ton of seconds to shave off with that list!
Follow "earlydays" 4-step plan. You need a good performing stock base before worrying about anything. It sounds like you've got far-underperforming tires, questionable brakes, a bad ride height / corner-balancing, and who-knows for an alignment. There are a ton of seconds to shave off with that list!
10-13-2010, 06:24 PM
#35
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[QUOTE=-nick;7972027]Don't UTQG ratings correlate closely with speed ratings? I can't imagine that a 420 rating would be anywhere close to a Z-rated tire, and I'm surprised you would be allowed to run anything less than a Z-rated tire at a track day..................QUOTE]
That rating is a relative treadwear rating to compare expected mileage among manufacturers. It doesn't have anything to do with the speed rating. The comment was related to a higher treadware rating typically being due to harder compounds, which usually equals less grip.
That rating is a relative treadwear rating to compare expected mileage among manufacturers. It doesn't have anything to do with the speed rating. The comment was related to a higher treadware rating typically being due to harder compounds, which usually equals less grip.
10-13-2010, 06:30 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
altarchsa- very true, but I haven't noticed many Y-speed-rated tires with a 420 treadwear rating 
edit - via altarchsa below, I stand corrected!
I'm still a proponent of getting the base equipment up to standard - tires, alignment, ride height, brakes - before street or track driving.
edit - via altarchsa below, I stand corrected!
I'm still a proponent of getting the base equipment up to standard - tires, alignment, ride height, brakes - before street or track driving.
Last edited by -nick; 10-13-2010 at 08:07 PM.
10-13-2010, 06:47 PM
#38
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Tire Rack has 15 models from various manufacturers rated at 400 or more for Z rated OE 205-55-16 and 225-50-16 sizes. (Just so happens I was shopping for a replacement tire today.)
I doubt that many here are pushing the Z rating envelope and need a 186mph Y rated tire.
I doubt that many here are pushing the Z rating envelope and need a 186mph Y rated tire.
10-13-2010, 07:03 PM
#39
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Had more time to think about the (OP's) question and I've now got a revised suggestion:
1. Adjust nut on steering wheel until car will not go any faster.
2. Adjust car.
Worked for me with my 993RS CS.....
1. Adjust nut on steering wheel until car will not go any faster.
2. Adjust car.
Worked for me with my 993RS CS.....
10-13-2010, 07:37 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Along the same lines as Colin, at this point you want to work on your driving skills. That's 90% of it, a good driver can be fast in a slow car and a slow driver can be very slow in a fast car...
That said make sure you have a good solid platform to work from a 964 is perfect in my opinion with just a few simple mods:
On a 964 that would be a good street tire with a treadwear of 160 or less, you can go wider with a set of cup II s...I'd hold off on the r rubber, it just pushes the envelope up and you want to be understanding limits and driving at the limit of a good street tire will keep the speed interesting but not dangerous...brakes! Get a good pad like PF97s or hawks and a high performance fluid, upgrading the springs to H&R greens or even reds is ok for the short term or the eibach lowering springs, a set of factory 030 sport swaybars and a good corner balance and align... Then drive drive drive... When you reach a level where you are consistently running at the limit of this setup, then move on to the typeR tires dampeners etc etc....
I'd stay awY from engine mods right now you will have all the power you need even though it may not seem like it at first, (momentum=speed and that's all driver) particularly anything that bumps up the rev limits, factory motors will go a long time with no issues if you leave them alone, one exception is it's hard on the clutch exp with the rubber centered ones, be gentle...
That said make sure you have a good solid platform to work from a 964 is perfect in my opinion with just a few simple mods:
On a 964 that would be a good street tire with a treadwear of 160 or less, you can go wider with a set of cup II s...I'd hold off on the r rubber, it just pushes the envelope up and you want to be understanding limits and driving at the limit of a good street tire will keep the speed interesting but not dangerous...brakes! Get a good pad like PF97s or hawks and a high performance fluid, upgrading the springs to H&R greens or even reds is ok for the short term or the eibach lowering springs, a set of factory 030 sport swaybars and a good corner balance and align... Then drive drive drive... When you reach a level where you are consistently running at the limit of this setup, then move on to the typeR tires dampeners etc etc....
I'd stay awY from engine mods right now you will have all the power you need even though it may not seem like it at first, (momentum=speed and that's all driver) particularly anything that bumps up the rev limits, factory motors will go a long time with no issues if you leave them alone, one exception is it's hard on the clutch exp with the rubber centered ones, be gentle...
10-13-2010, 08:27 PM
#41
Instructor
+ 1 on getting some instruction - I've done a few Tarmac Rallies and a lot of track days.
I did a 'refresher' race instruction course for a day and got rid of a few bad habits I had picked up since I first got my competition licence and knocked about 3 seconds off my lap time. Money well spent!
Driver mods first, car mods second.....
I did a 'refresher' race instruction course for a day and got rid of a few bad habits I had picked up since I first got my competition licence and knocked about 3 seconds off my lap time. Money well spent!
Driver mods first, car mods second.....
10-13-2010, 09:15 PM
#42
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Would agree that driver instruction is the most important upgrade but, for a C4, I'd place emphasis on trail braking. Learning proper technique will get you to the apex as fast as any car on the track and, if you've nailed the line, allow you to exit in a nice 4-wheel drift.
10-13-2010, 09:17 PM
#43
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The article referenced, below, provides a good understanding of your car's on-track manners, technical insights and suggestions on getting the most out of it.
Read the 3 part article "Wringing Out the Carrera 4" as it may give you some insight on how to drive the C4 and options to improve the car. A copy can be found at http://www.porsche964.co.uk/rev_rep/excellence.htm
10-14-2010, 06:24 PM
#44
10-15-2010, 06:27 AM
#45
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# Adjust ride hight / suspension
# Get good Tires
# Book some Time with a good driver instructor (You might enjoy this James May improved Lap Times by 20 sec...
# Get good Tires
# Book some Time with a good driver instructor (You might enjoy this James May improved Lap Times by 20 sec...