vtrich

I'm going to look at a '90 C2 imported and federalized approx. 10 years ago. I understand the current owner has alot of records and the EPA and DOT clearance letters,..although I haven't seen anything yet. I purchased a grey market '84 911 a number of years ago,...and the car worked out pretty well,...insurance company had some difficulty trying to identify the car on their system, but eventually got it insured. When I bought the car,..the seller thought it was an advantage being a grey market car,...slightly more hp and possibly a tad lighter. I argued that it had to be retrofitted to comply with US standards.

So here is this C2, 106,000 miles, has sport seats and a ltd slip. How does the whole non-U.S. model impact the value. It is velvet red, by the way.

Any and all feedback is mucho appreciated.

Rich

Frank 993 C4S

Once a grey market car always a grey market car, which means that there should be a significant discount on price and significantly lower resale value in the future. Remember that in the '80s slightly more hp usually came from higher compression ratios that don't work very well with the crappy gas we get here in the US. I always wondered how you verify actual mileage on these cars with the speedo having been converted from km/h to mph.

Makmov

1988 was pretty much the end of Grey Market cars in the US. So this is a different animal. Porsche decieded that it was too expensive to build a Euro and US spec car so they just started to build cars to US specs.

If it has been federalized it should be okay. The only thing that didn't comply was the ride hight so there was a spring difference, and the only other thing that might be different is a cat or no cat.

Andy Roe

and also US cars had the front indicator lights on the side of the front wings/fenders. Where is the car from?

breale01

Not correct. Mine is a US car ('90 C2) and has no side marker lights on the wings/fenders. (I thought it was the Euro cars that had these )

vtrich

I'm not sure where the car is from,...specifically what country,..but I think Germany. It does have the small indicator lights in the middle of the front fenders, just like my '84 had.

I also agree, that along with the whole currency thing going on back in the early 80s, there was an added bonus of additional hp, which I don't get with this car.

I sold my grey market cab several years ago and I remember, not so fondly, many on the board being somewhat skeptical/negative toward the them. I even had a couple of really low offers based on the fact it was a total unknown. It wasn't but hey,..doesn't hurt to ask. I guess, if Ilike the car and it checks out reasonably well,..that it should also carry a discount to a comparable U.S. car.

As before, any other imput is appreciated.

Rich

Akerlie

It will be more desirable for foreign buyers when/if you decide to part with it

Makmov

Yes, I forgot about the euro lights, which has eventually migrated over here.

Basically the point was after 88 there were no grey market cars and Porsche just built one basic car for the US market. Prior to that they build a US spec car and Euro spec car which ment they had two different production lines.

That was also part of the Grey Market swindel and why the (the Feds) put a stop to it, and Porsche figured it was more cost effective to have one car.

Akerlie

Sorry for the OT

Makmov,

I dont want to start a fight here but there have "always" been US and ROW versions of the 911.
Here are the production numbers for the 964 : http://www.964uk.com/Documents/964%2...%20Numbers.pdf

Also if you study the ROW cars on PET you can see that there are a lot of different options for different regions of the world.

Makmov

Yeah, but the basic car was the same, they all came off the same assembly line.

Frank 993 C4S

Of course they did (all US bound Porsches were always assembled on the same line as the others). Fact is that "the basic car" is the same but there are many differences between the ROW and US cars even up to today. As Akerlie stated, you just need to check the PET and you'l see the differences. For example:

- US bumper standards are different than ROW (even today)
- side impact standards are different than ROW (even today)
- the US required airbags prior to ROW
- emissions requirements were different at the time of the 964
- headlights were different at the time of the 964

and on and on and on....

Ken D

Bruce Anderson will tell you a ROW/gray market car should be priced less than a comparable USA model due to lack of support from the servicing dealers. This makes sense for older models that were not offered in the USA, making parts availability an issue. But in this case because the 964 was offered concurrently in the US and ROW, your gray-market car will have few differences, certainly nothing that would equate to a substantial price adjustment.

Personally I would even consider paying slightly more if it had desirable 'lightweight' features like no sunroof, no A/C, and cloth interior, but that is really a matter of finding the right buyer who values these features.

The engine will have the same power output as a US model. Even if it didn't originally have a catalytic converter, the EPA/DOT certification would have required one to be added in addition to the lambda sensor.

Makmov

I understand all that but what you are not understanding is prior 88 the euro car was completely different to the US car. They had different compression, hp ratings, turbos, tuning and so forth, Not just some minor safety things. Porsche was building two different cars prior to 88.

There is no such thing as a grey market car after 88 and they were building them to US spec unless it was something that was easily changed, like springs for US ride hight.

That is my understanding as well, grey market cars bring less becuase you can't get parts for them easily and nobody wants to work on them.

I don't think the head lights were different, I think the US was starting to allow for H4s bulb type headlights because the big three was complaining that was the only way they could get their cars aero efficent enough to pass epa standards.

Damian in NJ

Great, rare color.

Frank 993 C4S

Some simple facts:

- Porsche was (and still is) building cars specific to certain markets, safety and emission standards. That didn't stop in '88.
- The definition of a "grey market" car is a vehicle imported into the US not conforming to US EPA and DOT standards (and having the sticker) and subsequently modified to meet those standards.
- The US version of the 964 did not come with H4 headlights

I won't argue with you and hijack this thread any further. I just hope that people don't rely on your information and for the question posted by the OP these issues don't matter anyway.