mark_in_maine

Hi All:

Need some help with my 91 C2 tiptronic (125k on the OD). Car went to the shop Monday to have ignition switch replaced. While there the shop owner noticed that the starter sounded funny and pulled it out to have a look. Upon inspection and after consulting with me it was decided to replace the unit. The new unit has arrived and has been installed. Now the new starter spins but is not engaging the engine to turn over. Shop owner seems to be stumped at least from the call I got 15 minutes ago. Any thoughts or ideas on how best to trouble shoot this situation?

Thanks for any and all help!

elbeee964

Tips take a different starter than standards.
It's a really, really long long shot, but did he put in a tip-type starter?
(See, here.)

mark_in_maine

Hi elbeee964:

I asked him the same question when we were on the phone did he had the correct starter for the Tip as it is different. He states that he has confirmed that this is the correct starter for a tip. Thanks for the thought though. I should have included that information in my original post.

mark_in_maine

Just some more information. The shop owner maintains that with a camera he can see that the ring gear is spinning when the starter is engaged. It seems that it is spinning but not engaging the torque converter or the engine. Is there anyway that the starter could be spinning the wrong direction due to a wiring issue? I just reconfirmed that the part number is correct one.

mojorizing

I don't think the starter is engaging the ring gear....he'd see the engine turn over.

Is the battery up to charge? A weak battery might be enough to close the starter solenoid, spin the bendix drive , but not sufficiently to engage the ring gear.


A bedix drive wired in reverse would spin the wrong direction, and never engage the gear.....it's an inertial starter.

mark_in_maine

The shop owner maintains that he can see with the camera the bendix gear engage the ring gear, but the ring gear spins. My question now is how is the ring gear attached within a tiptronic configuration. Is it possible that the gear is split and now just spins freely when the bendix engages it? There is no evidence of metal fragments etc that would indicate an internal failure. The next step is to drop the motor and transmission to see what is happening...something I would rather avoid if possible.

jimq

sounds like it was working until he broke it.I hope all the extra work is on his dime!

mojorizing

I'm wrong about the engine must turn over if the ring gear is engaged. You and your mechanic are on to something. I'll need to look at my manuals tonight.

mark_in_maine

Not sure if you are wrong or right at this point in time. I do know I appreciate any information you can provide and your willingness to assist.

mark_in_maine

Mojo:

Totally off topic, but I had an epic trip back in the 80s to the island of Kauai. Stayed at the Westin Kauai for 10 days. Understand that the hotel was destroyed in a hurricane but has since been bought and rebuilt. Definitely in my top 5 favorite spots.

J richard

Never had a tip but if it's like early solid flywheels the ring gear is heat shrunk around the flywheel, if it split it could in fact be rotating around the flywheel and not actually turning the converter...

mark_in_maine

Just picked up Adrian's book in hopes that some unread tidbit would lead me to the answer. Good stuff as always but no silver bullet answers. Late here on the coast of Maine...will look for answers and maybe more rennlist responses on Friday. Thanks all

altarchsa

If the ring gear is heat shrunk on, is it possible the mechanic misaligned the starter bedix on install and pushed it off the flywheel when tightening the starter down? (assuming he actually installed the correct starter. It's not inconceivable that he obtained the wrong starter regardless of which one he ordered.)

J richard

Twenty minutes to pull the starter and a screwdriver on the gear would tell you if you have a serious issue, and you can compare the new/old starters...

mojorizing

Mark,
I was hoping to search through my PET CD, but it turns out all the computers that I have now won't load the CD. I went to the online PET at>>
http://www.porsche.com/usa/accessori...artscatalogue/
which isn't searchable. Page 19 of the 964 pdf shows the ring gear config and starting at pg. 159 is the tip transmission. It looks to me like the ring gear is bolted the flywheel, but I'm not sure if I'm looking at the tip flywheel or not in the PET. Maybe someone with the PET installed on the computer can zero in on the tip setup. Anyway, I think removal on the starter and an inspection of the ring gear is called for. What was the reason you changed out the starter? Was the gear worn?