wellcraft290

no 60 100 if you get the intercooler too

ilko

The intercooler comes with different software (and pulley?) for more boost.

wellcraft290

no idea why has more power but per website says more. is confusing on the site

964speed

I thought you lose about 10-15% from crank to rear wheels. At least that is what i've been told. TPC numbers suggestion a much larger loss.

Of course you can spend 16k and buy the supercup 3.8 liter upgrade and probably another 5-6k on install and tuning and get the same horse power as a turbo for far more money.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...d=p3911.c0.m14

NineMeister

OK boys, here's one for you to look at:

Customer in France asks me to collect a 964 race car from London which has been fitted with a stock 993 Varioram engine on Motronic. Loves the car, but the problem is that before he bought it he drove a 911SC race car that we had fitted with a 9m Motec conversion on a 993 Non-Varioram engine. He loved the way that the NVR delivered the power in comparison to the "bland" delivery of the VR, so asked us to convert his engine to the same specification because he wanted a more exciting car to drive.

I drove the car back the 200 miles and have to say that it behaved well enough but was not exactly fast, so I could clearly see the motivation for the work. The engine was fitted with stock 993 heat exchangers, no cats & with a pair of small 993 style side silencers, otherwise completely bone stock. Whilst the engine was out of the car we also fitted a 8:32 R&P along with new Recaros & harnesses. Anyway, here is the customer's response after the drive back to France:

"I'm absolutely delighted by the result of your work. The engine is incomparably more characterful and exciting, not to mention much more powerful (333 vs. 273 BHP!). I love the way it feels strong low down, then torque suddenly builds at 4000 rpm, with another great big wave of torque at 4500, that is sustained until 5500+ and then tails off gently above that.

What a change from the lifeless engine I brought you! And all without opening it at all!!!

I'm a very happy customer. :-D

No flat spots at all, great calibration work all round.

I'm also very pleased with the 8:32 final drive. Perfect."

Here's the before/after dyno graph:

NineMeister

Forgot to add the cost, so before you all ask:

9m Motec conversion £3500 including installation & mapping.
Varioram manifold exchanged for Non-Varioram manifold, nil cost.
Labour to change parts approx £450 including deletion of A/C bracket.

And that's it, apart from VAT.

BlueHeeler

Thanks

NineMeister

Oh, and since you are all asking about TPC supercharger conversions, here is the result of a 993VR engine with a non-intercooled TPC kit installed by us. Had a problem with the package in that the original VR ecu did not like the installation and created a trough in the torque curve, so this is actually the vastly improved torque curve we got from using a stock non-Varioram Motronic ecu in the car.

At least this plot answers everyone's questions about the power from a TPC kit, this one made just a nudge under 360hp corrected at the flywheel as measured on our chassis dyno.

ilko

Wait, so the TPC kit doesn't actually lose power like I read on the internet? And you have the audacity to submit proof? Oh the horror!!

964speed

I think ilko sells TPC systems on the side... I still think turbo are the way to go for an upgrade

wellcraft290

ouch. Also am I correct on this doesn't look like abig increase in TQ. what was the increase

964speed

Hey Hey now...It looks like we are ganging up on Ilko because we like turbos...

It's all good - we all like Porsche and to each their own!

boxsey911

I think you're on the right path because when I've come off the track in my C2 and taken a passenger ride in a 964RS (euro) it feels like there are an extra 50 horses on board. Yet we all know that they only have 10 extra bhp on paper but that LWF and their skinny weight make a huge difference on how the car goes. And that's before we get to the corners

Nine11

Thanks. I have suspension goodies too that I hope helps in the corners. I might replace that as time goes....but I prefer the 'light is right' approach.

raspberryroadster

bottom line.....the 964 naturally aspirated engines 01,02,03 had a compression ratio of 11:1....vs the 964 turbo's which had a compression ratio of 7.5: or less.

now do any research you want - but forced induction (turbo or supercharger does not matter - at equivalent levels of boost they deliver same power increase) at anything over 9.5:1 UNLESS its serious mild installation with cooling efforts (plus high octane to prevent pre ignition) is treading on thin ice.....even then there is no engine management system available that will combine to prevent engine failure at WOT.

stock naturally aspirated 964 engine deserves to be built out in other than forced induction,
(agree with weight reduction) or supercharged/turbo'd with rebuild of the top end, to get full $'s worth out of very expensive power adder.