911Jetta

After searching the forums and some research I've purchased and installed Wevo's motor mounts. (I ordered the softer black pillows)

Why did I bother installing new motor mounts?
When looking at my old m.m., just below the engine carrier, there was about an inch of sag. This seemed way out of spec. (?), but I don't know how they looked when brand new and haven't seen any pictures of recently replaced stock m.m. I could however feel the engine moving around while driving. My car handles very well and has more talent than me, but over the couple of years of ownership I could finally interpret that the engine was acting as a separate unit from the car body... the engine movement cause a slightly unsettling feeling at times. Also, my transmission which shifts so smoothly during normal driving, would bind up a bit when downshifting into a tight 2nd gear corner. So I thought it was time to upgrade and have fun modding my car with a very high quality part. It's a race quality m.m., so simple and honest in design...

Installation is very simple. So I won't bore you with that but I have a couple observations for those with newbie skills like me.

• after supporting the engine and loosening one m.m., the gap between the mount and engine carrier looks pretty huge (a couple of inches). Don't worry. You will need to use your jack to raise up the engine so that you can start the tread at the bottom of the m.m. through bolt.
• you must use a torque wrench. There is no way I would have be able to tell what 40 ft. lbs. is like? I know this is obvious, but I somehow made it this far in life without one. Given the elastomer design and such, this is definitely not a "just crank it down situation", 40 ft. lbs. exactly.
• learn from my huge mistake... the included washer must go ABOVE the engine carrier. I initially placed it below and began down a long side journey... pics here

What does it feel like? Going in, I was mostly worried about cabin vibration and rattling, not additional engine (type) noise. My car is rattle free (these cars are so awesome), and I didn't want these mounts to create incessant vibration or rattling throughout the cabin.

In the interest of full disclosure my car has a drilled air, primary by-pass and no sound pad - under engine or behind seats (plus, the radio is always off). Noise wise, results with a stock car will probably feel different. These mounts blend right in with the overall feeling of an exhaust/suspension modified car.

On start up:
I can feel the engine shake as it comes to life. I also felt it before with the old mounts... and I honestly liked the feeling (reminds me of my high school days riding around in my best-friend's cammed-out '68 Camaro). So that hasn't gone away, but now the shaking comes from a sense of solidness (direct, tight feeling), not slop. One second in, with windows up there's not much difference. Still pretty quite. No sensation of (dramatically) increased noise or vibration... maybe just a 5% difference. Definitely nothing negative!

Driving experience
There's a subtle feeling of improve directness, improved precision, a sense of oneness. Obviously just m.m. won't/shouldn't lead to a massive change, but with the sense of solidness comes an enhanced sense of playfulness. I feel as though the car is working with me just a little bit more. I'm talking about a 5% type of improvement.

The big change comes while climbing up the rev band or while cruising at 3k plus. There is definitely more noise coming through the cabin. It's tough to describe, but the engine sounds louder in the cabin... it's as if I added another exhaust bypass. Not a negative noise, rattle, or negative vibration. (Note: given this type of mod., there is increased vibration, but it's not the type that rattles anything in the car, the experience manifests itself more as noise... don't know how to describe that better). With windows open, I definitely hear more (what seems like motor) noise directly over my should outside the driver's side window.

Screaming up to redline the first time was worth the price of admission, a whole notch louder and more direct (that sense overwhelms any additional vibration that is present). Throttle response feels better, big on and off throttle movements feel more solid.

While idling there is an increased sense of lumpyness coming from the engine. At first I thought the idle was hunting (like +/- 25 rpm), but it was rock solid 880.

On shutdown you get the same shake as start up. In a nice, direct way you feel the last cylinder firing, then STOP. It feels nice, your baby is now sleeping...

I ordered the softer, black pillows for fear of negative vibrations (and the best match for 99% daily driving)... I'm tempted to order a set of blue pillows and mix and match... (a sign that the mod is good for me)

Who is this product not for?
Someone who wants a completely stock feeling car, and feels as though Porsche designed everything right. An OEM Porsche driver. (not in anyway a negative comment. Just different strokes) Also I feel this mod (like an exhaust bypass) would not be the best for owners who like to accompany their spirited driving with music (the non-engine kind).

I'm still shocked at how well a completely stock 964 drives. A stock, well-maintained 964 is a treasure. If you want to sharpen the edge just a bit and like a more direct feel to your, Wevo m.m. are a nice addition.

Best,
Udo

Thank you to everyone would was kind enough to previously post their results and also those who personally sent me their feedback. It went a long way to ensuring that this mod. was correct for me. Plus now I have a torque wrench!

mada1

Great write up! Thanks.

-nick

I'll add my 0.02.

I like the quiet(ish) stock sound. I tried out a sport-cat, and thought it was way too loud. The 964 is an elegant, refined, and purposeful machine in my eyes. But I still like to give it a good thrashing. That should give you an idea of where I'm coming from.

I replaced my stock motor mounts with the Wevo's (black pillows) when I had my carrier out for reinforcement last month. I've now put around 300 miles of city (Boston proper) and highway time in on the new setup.

There is a bit more vibration at idle and startup. However, it isn't bothersome at all. The car really has a much more solid feel and direct feeling all around. I think that is the best way to describe it. Shifting has a slightly different feel too, dare I say more precise?

One surprise, was that you can really feel and hear the a/c compressor when it is engaged. So much so that I thought something was wrong at first. Now I don't even think about it.

There is slightly more engine noise than before, but nothing close to bypassing one of the exhaust pipes. The difference is very easy to live with.

I would *highly* recommend the Wevo mounts. It really transformed the feeling of the car to me.

911Jetta

Nick,

I'm going to try that out in about 10 minutes. Thanks for the heads up.

911Jetta

This comment always stuck in my head... well last night I had my AC converted from R12 to R134a. As I drove away from the shop (with the AC blasting ice cubes!) I heard an new noise?! Sounded like a whining supercharger belt. I also heard it mostly over my left shoulder.

Hummm...then I remembered Nick's comment above. As soon as I deactivated the AC, the noise stopped. Turn AC on, heard whining noise. AC off again, no noise. After a while with the AC on, the noised comes and goes as the compressor cycles on and off.

I bring this up because I hadn't noticed this noise before and it's surprisingly loud. I've been a huge supporter of upgrading motor mounts (RS or Wevo), and have experienced few negatives after converting to the Wevos, but the noise I now hear when the AC compressor is running might been too loud or grating for those considering it to be a mild upgrade (NVH wise). Just more input.

crg53

For what it is worth, I put the 993 C4 engine mounts in mine with no ill effects and a lot cheaper IIRC. My old mount were sagging badly, so of cause any new mount will be better, and no AC noise or other NVH.

Ryan360

thanks for the info. I leaning towards the 993 mounts if i decide to replace them.

92silver964

Very nice of you to write such a useful review of the Wevo blacks. I am waiting on the completion of my engine rebuild to have my just-received blacks installed. Your characterizations of how your car now feels and sounds encourage me on having done the same selection - now I just need to get my car finished and on the road! Thanks again.

geordie

How long does the complete removal of factory mounts & installation of WEVO or RS mounts take ?

vespam5

I recently did this mod as well, but I also replaced my tired tranny mount with a Turbo-Kraft unit.....I can't say it's exactly pleasant. Cabin noise is def louder and there is more vibration in the cabin.....almost annoying when you have a nice little lady next to you. The new tranny mount is similar to the WEVO where it is mostly aluminum with a small section of urethane rubber. I would not recommend this combination for a daily driver unless you see a lot of track days. But the plus is it has a very direct feel, very very direct.

gprosser

+1 on the 993 mounts

elbeee964

About an hour, or three, when done at [my] plodding speeds (ie, doing a lot of "huh, I didn't know that went together like that!")

the steps are:

1. support engine with some jack.
2. unbolt 4 + 2 bolts of old mount assy.
3. remove old mounts.
4. insert new nounts.
5. bolt in new 4 + 2 bolts of new mount assy.
6. remove engine jack.

wagonface

I recently put the 993 C4/Turbo mounts in my 964T. I now also get AC belt noise sometimes. Most of the time I cant hear anything, but occasionally it sounds like a slipping belt or similar. I cant pin down the conditions to make it noisy, yet.

911Jetta

I'm with Lonnie...(with my level of luck and experience) it will either take 1 or 3 hours, depending on what you run into? For a qualified shop, it's an easy 1 hour job (with time for them to look around while the car is up on the lift).

It's as easy as supporting the engine with at jack, and then unbolting/exchanging one side at a time. Be careful when you unbolt each side, as the engine will move a bit (and you don't want to torque the engine carrier too much! Then it's just a unbolt and bolt job with a torque wrench (important!).

Adding a couple notes to Lonnie's list:
- spray WD40 on all the bolts a day or two before to facilitate removing the bolts.
- you will need a socket extension to be able to reach the m.m. bolt (and maybe a helper to keep a grip on the bolt).
- you will probably have to adjust your tail pipe also, as the engine will finally be sitting in it's correct spot again.


Good to know I'm not the only one who's experienced this (and it's not just with Wevo MMs)...

I noticed this for the FIRST time after I had my AC converted to 143a (?). To me the noise sounds like a dentist drill, an annoying gnawing sound? I only hear the noise when the AC is on, and then the noise cycles on and off with the compressor (I believe). I love everything else about these upgraded MM, but this noise would be a big negative for those wanting a stock driving car (still better than having a sagging engine though!). (((I later found out that this sound is coming from my AC lines as they cross over the engine. With the new motor mounts, the engine sits higher and the AC line was coming into contact with the engine grill, causing the vibration noise...move the AC lines a bit so it doesn't contact the engine lid...no noise)))

I can live with it though, given the dramatic improvement of the Wevo MM over the worn mounts.

BTW, as the Wevo website mentions, you can mix and match black (soft) and blue (firm) pillows to adjust the m.m. firmness. I ran the blue pillows for a year, but have recently changed the lower pillows to the firmer black pillows, with no noticeable change in harshness from the former lower blue pillows. In speaking with Wevo, there's little difference in harshness/vibration between blue/black lower pillows (they do less work), upper pillows are different.

christallon

Hi Jetta,

I have been reading all your posts on the MM subject. Very nicely explained. Thank You. In your most recent post, you mention going from blue to black on the lower pillows. You state the "firmer" black pillow. I had assumed the blacks were actually more forgiving therefore softer. Did I get that wrong? I have just purchased a used set of Wevos that came with blue's. I ordered a new set of black pillows from Wevo and thought to install the blacks first. Do you think I should go straight to the blue tops, black bottoms? My car is still on stock suspension, so I'm not expecting dramatic improvements, but I do have original factory mounts that I am looking forward to changing out.

Thanks