UncleRemus

Hey guys and gals,

I've been lurking on this board for a while, hoping that I may someday have a good reason to post. As the thread title states, I am really interested in a 91' 964 in my area. I have done a ton of research on 80s SC and the 964, and I think I've decided that I want a 964 I found at Victory Motorcars in town. I realize that that shop isn't viewed in a favorable light on this forum, but the car has the right options and colors, and I plan to approach them as if they were simply a used car dealer.

I have a local PCA instructor at River Oaks Auto lined up to do the PPI next week, but I have a few questions in relation to the PPI.

First, how would one check the integrity of either the head studs or the valve guides in the PPI? I assume that a broken head stud would result in pretty catastrophic oil leaks and compression loss. However, I'm also assuming that worn valve guides would be best checked over time by measuring oil consupmtion (i.e., not really done in a PPI).

Second, this car apparently has not had any head work done. One of my Porsche books said that the head stud problem and maybe the valve guide issues were corrected halfway throught the 1991 run year. Is anyone able to validate this or provide the breakpoint?

Third, I've read that "a puff" of smoke on startup is pretty par for the course with an old air cooled 911. When this car was started, I would consider it to be more than "a puff." It had probably been sitting for at least a week, so I know that the problem was especially bad in this case. How critical is the issue of worn valve guides? I.e., is it simply an oil consumption and cat-fouling issue?

Finally, would anyone else be kind enough to offer some words of wisdom that might not be written in the conventional buyers' guides.

DaveK

I've been on this forum for 5 years - but I've just learned something new. I didn't know 964s had worn valve guide or broken head stud issues?

I know that the older 911s (SCs etc.) have problems with headstuds - but I haven't seen it mentioned for 964s. I guess valve guides can wear the same as any other car - but I didn't know it was a particular problem. Does leakdown / compression test check this?

Usually, the 964 problems that people mention are head gasket / oil leak problems and DMF......

UncleRemus

DaveK,

Thanks for the reply. I've seen your posts on this forum quite a bit, and you certainly seem well informed.

Regarding the head studs, tt may very well be the case that I'm confusing something I read in the Excellence tech colum with vague details in my buyers guide book. The book states: "Serious leaks in C2 and C4 to midyear. To repair cylinder head leaks, replace pistons, cylinders, machine case to fit deeper skirts. Approximately $5k for parts and labor. Most likely already done." Anyway, I guess it's good news if the gasket is the problem instead of the studs as well.

Regarding the valve guides, I thought I got that from excellence . . . And this car certainly does smoke a good bit. Is suppose that could mean either the head gasket leaking or the valve guides are worn.

Anyway, thanks for clarifying.

DaveK

Yes - the leaks they are talking about are due to the gasket-less heads.

The only time I've seen valve guides mentioned is in the "if you don't take your undertray off, it will damage your valve guides" threads. But I've never actually seen anybody mention that they have had particular valve guide problems.

I'm not convinced I'm well informed - but I guess being here so long you notice some things get posted about and not others.

DaveK

Oh - and I'd question that they use the term "serious leaks" as well - I'm not sure that's ever really been true.

last toy

I bought my car from Robert at Victorymotors. He is a broker and moves Porsches. You get what you see and pay for. I don't think he does much with them other than clean and wax. I had him ship mine to Cleveland where I have a permanent residence. Other than tightening up a lot of loose nuts and bolts, the car is in show room condition and runs as good as my 993 and gets a lot of head turns. I evetually sunk $1500 in the first 6 months to fix a slight oil leak and a few annoying issues.

Victorymotors buys from ebay and tacks on about $3000 in resale. Do a carfax and talk to the previous owner before you buy. I believe the head gasket oil leak problem was fixed on cars made after November 1990. You can call Porsche North America and give them the vin # and they will tell you what was done to the car relative to recalls. Make sure the dual distributor belt is good, running off one distributor could be disasterous. Check out the AC and heating, make sure the front vents distribute air evenly with the blower running high. Sometimes the servo valves stick open or closed. Make sure you have a deflated spare tire with a portable air compressor and the Porsche tool kit. I drove 500 miles with mine without a compressor,that p---ed me off.

If he says a tune up was completed, ask him for the paperwork and any maintenace records. Ask him what the condition of the clutch is? VM is no better or worse than any other used car dealer, however, Robert supposedly has been selling Porsches for over 20 years, so I think he knows a good car when he sees one. Try to run the car up to oil temp and see if the temp guage hangs around 8:00 and the oil pressure holds at 1.5 bars at idle and 4-5 bars when accelerating. Good luck and become a member and show pics.

last toy

Regarding the gasketless oil leak, don't think it's just a matter of adding a gasket, it does require all of the machining that your reference mentioned. $5000 is cheap, Porsche quoted me about $8000 when I checked out my leak. Fortunately it was an unrelated problem my shop fixed. Also, find yourself a good reputable shop that works on Porsches. I have not had good results with dealer techs.

JasonAndreas

Bruce Anderson's performance handbook mentions some headstud problems with models prior to the 964. The 964 headstuds are not made from the same material and since the year 2000 there have been four reported headstud breakages by 964 owners on Rennlist. If it was a real issue I would expect to see more.

MarkD

As a point of reference, my 964 does not smoke at all upon startup even if it sits for 2 weeks. It has 70K miles.

If you are getting a lot of smoke, what is the oil level? Maybe overfill? If you get a PPI done make sure the leakdown test is added. Most basic PPIs do not include this. If I was seeing smoke I'd want one.

Good luck in your search and as Don stated, post pics when you get one!

Side note: Don, I just realized... you have a 993 mid blue cab, 964 GR coupe... I have exactly the opposite... 964 mid blue cab, 993 GR coupe. Funny!

springer3

I also get zero blue smoke on start, even after sitting for weeks. 58,000 miles. What is the mileage on the 91 you are considering? I had a pretty good size blue cloud on my early 911 before the rebuild. I am sure it was leakage past the rings when the car sat. What are the cylinder leakage numbers? What is the price?

andrew911

Sometimes I get a small puff of smoke on startup- I think after it's been sitting, but it is not a lot of smoke for a 911. To someone who isn't familiar with an air cooled car it might seem like "a lot of smoke" since new cars don't smoke at all, but a "small amount" of smoke on startup is normal for a flat-6 air cooled car, even the newer 964 and 993 models.

last toy

Mark, that is funny. I bet your 993 coupe in GR is really awesome. I think I would get a 993 turbo coup in GR if and when I get another one. can't beat a 993 for performance and reliabilty.

UncleRemus

Well, I appreciate all the help on the forum, but unfortunately this car did not get a clean bill of health I absolutely fell in love with the color after I saw it in person, so I suppose I really wanted it to work out.

Anyway, this forum is great and I'll continue searching.

Thanks,
Jeff

springer3

What flunked? Get the repair cost off the price, and you get a car you like with everything fixed (assuming it is fixable of course).

Wachuko

Some do... ...do not ask me how I know... It was a rainy November weekend, the year? 2001...