964 Carrera Trophy (pre 964RS Cup car)
09-06-2006, 08:37 PM
#16
Nordschleife Master
Colin,
I believe the 1990 Cup cars came with the aluminum manifold on the M64/03 engine and it should have a G50/10 gearbox which is capable of 177mph at redline according the the gear ratios listed in the parts manual. It seems there were several series where these cars ran, a Cup series and a Trophie series. Bob's car ran the Cup series, but the following year the team ran the Trophie series, but with a different car.
BTW, when you are ready to send the car to the US, let me know.
I believe the 1990 Cup cars came with the aluminum manifold on the M64/03 engine and it should have a G50/10 gearbox which is capable of 177mph at redline according the the gear ratios listed in the parts manual. It seems there were several series where these cars ran, a Cup series and a Trophie series. Bob's car ran the Cup series, but the following year the team ran the Trophie series, but with a different car.
BTW, when you are ready to send the car to the US, let me know.
09-06-2006, 08:51 PM
#19
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Nice to see the photos of your car Bob. Apparently Porsche made just 50 Cup cars in the first production batch starting with chassis number 96ZLS409001, thus our cars are definitely from this first batch - I wonder how many are still around?
It is interesting that your car has the later engine lid closure panel catch, you can see from the engine photo of 007 that it still has the earlier 1989 version with the round catch. We obviously have some work to do sorting out the front trunk area to put it back to standard, so can you post some more close up photos of this area so we can check the details?
I'm not ready to ship it across the Pond just yet Geoffrey, but maybe I could be persuaded one day.
It is interesting that your car has the later engine lid closure panel catch, you can see from the engine photo of 007 that it still has the earlier 1989 version with the round catch. We obviously have some work to do sorting out the front trunk area to put it back to standard, so can you post some more close up photos of this area so we can check the details?
I'm not ready to ship it across the Pond just yet Geoffrey, but maybe I could be persuaded one day.
09-06-2006, 08:55 PM
#20
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I don't know if your aware of the incredible and extensive work/studie that Bob Gagnon done back in 1993 about the "lightweight Carrera Confusion". I think is a must and all of you that have the luck to own such a great car should read it.
Your car in fact appears to be one of the only 50 made in 1990. The very first serie of the Cup cars and based on the European Carrera 2 Coupe. As the studie states: the origin of the 92 RS starts with the European Carrera Cup Racing Series for wich special modified Carrera 2 cars were built in 1990 and 1991. These modified Carrera 2 were VIN numbered as a normal European Carrera 2 coupe with a -0- as the thirteenth digit designation a ROW (rest of the world, non USA) Coupe but with a -9- as the fourteenth digit beginning the last four digits of the VIN which are the serial number. The 1990 (like yours)racing cars were --L-- series cars in the range WPOZZZ96ZLS40 9001 to 9050. The 1991 racing cars were --M-- series cars also with a -9- as the fourteenth digit in the range WPOZZZ96MS40 9001 to 9120. Total production for 1990 and 1991 was 172 Carrera Cup racing cars. These racing cars have essentially every component of the Carrera 2 modified for improved perfomance. These modifications plus some others were carried forward to the new Carrera RS. All 964 chassis based Carrera Cup vehicles after 1991 were based on the new 1992 Carrera RS. The 1992 Carrera RS is homologated into FIA racing class Group N/GT, Grand Turismo Racing - not avaiable for sale in the USA.
The 1992 Carrera RS was avaiable in a total of four versions, a basic version plus -M- option variants. They were called: 1) Carrera RS -Basic-N/GT-or-Lightweight 2) Carrera Cup Racing version (Option M001) 3) Touring version(Option M002) 4) Competition version (Option M003). The RS basic, touring and competition types were approved for road use around the world, excepting the USA. The Carrera Cup racing version was not aprroved for road use. The M001 Carrera Cup racing car was built for racing customers in model years 1992 and 1993. The M002 and M003 road cars were built in 1993. In 1992, 112 M001 Carrera Cup racing cars were built wich have -N-series VIN numbers with the Carrera RS -9- as thirteenth digit but with an -8- as the fourteenth digit to begin the serial number in the range WPOZZZ96ZNS49 8001 to 8112. In 1993, 15 M001 Carrera Cup racing cars were built and these are in the --P-- series VIN range: WPOZZZ96ZPS49 8001 to 8015.
Your car in fact appears to be one of the only 50 made in 1990. The very first serie of the Cup cars and based on the European Carrera 2 Coupe. As the studie states: the origin of the 92 RS starts with the European Carrera Cup Racing Series for wich special modified Carrera 2 cars were built in 1990 and 1991. These modified Carrera 2 were VIN numbered as a normal European Carrera 2 coupe with a -0- as the thirteenth digit designation a ROW (rest of the world, non USA) Coupe but with a -9- as the fourteenth digit beginning the last four digits of the VIN which are the serial number. The 1990 (like yours)racing cars were --L-- series cars in the range WPOZZZ96ZLS40 9001 to 9050. The 1991 racing cars were --M-- series cars also with a -9- as the fourteenth digit in the range WPOZZZ96MS40 9001 to 9120. Total production for 1990 and 1991 was 172 Carrera Cup racing cars. These racing cars have essentially every component of the Carrera 2 modified for improved perfomance. These modifications plus some others were carried forward to the new Carrera RS. All 964 chassis based Carrera Cup vehicles after 1991 were based on the new 1992 Carrera RS. The 1992 Carrera RS is homologated into FIA racing class Group N/GT, Grand Turismo Racing - not avaiable for sale in the USA.
The 1992 Carrera RS was avaiable in a total of four versions, a basic version plus -M- option variants. They were called: 1) Carrera RS -Basic-N/GT-or-Lightweight 2) Carrera Cup Racing version (Option M001) 3) Touring version(Option M002) 4) Competition version (Option M003). The RS basic, touring and competition types were approved for road use around the world, excepting the USA. The Carrera Cup racing version was not aprroved for road use. The M001 Carrera Cup racing car was built for racing customers in model years 1992 and 1993. The M002 and M003 road cars were built in 1993. In 1992, 112 M001 Carrera Cup racing cars were built wich have -N-series VIN numbers with the Carrera RS -9- as thirteenth digit but with an -8- as the fourteenth digit to begin the serial number in the range WPOZZZ96ZNS49 8001 to 8112. In 1993, 15 M001 Carrera Cup racing cars were built and these are in the --P-- series VIN range: WPOZZZ96ZPS49 8001 to 8015.
09-06-2006, 09:08 PM
#21
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Colin, Geoffrey Ring and I have determined that both ends of my car have been improved(repaired) with newer pieces. 
This Cup was raced By Rolf Goering and Rene Vogt in 1990 with the Eichin Race team. The Light weight confusion article is a great summary but little else information is available for these early cup cars. Porsche sport 93 and Racecam.de are also good sources for Carrera Cup race History. I'm Still looking for any other sources that may be out there. What would you like to see under the bonnet. The fuel tank is a 993 part # 100 liter tank that is still available from Porsche. It's great for 90 minute enduro's.
Bob
This Cup was raced By Rolf Goering and Rene Vogt in 1990 with the Eichin Race team. The Light weight confusion article is a great summary but little else information is available for these early cup cars. Porsche sport 93 and Racecam.de are also good sources for Carrera Cup race History. I'm Still looking for any other sources that may be out there. What would you like to see under the bonnet. The fuel tank is a 993 part # 100 liter tank that is still available from Porsche. It's great for 90 minute enduro's. Bob
09-06-2006, 09:21 PM
#22
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My partner Marc has already gone over our car and noted the extra seam welding on the shell and compared it to the N-GT in the shop, so once we have finished detailing out car we will pretty much have all the body improvement details of the car catalogued. I will probably do the same with the mechanicals, so that leaves the interior spec to resolve. The door panels are the same on both our cars so this must be a given, similarly with the drivers seat although I suspect the steering wheel has been changed. Our car has just 12,000km on the clock so we are lucky that the trim is in perfect order apart from the vynil coming unstuck from around the dials.
I'm looking forward to digging up more details of the car and will obviously keep you informed of anything I manage to find out, all I can tell you is that whilst most of the cars like yours were made in white, our car was definitely the only one in Signal Green.
I'm looking forward to digging up more details of the car and will obviously keep you informed of anything I manage to find out, all I can tell you is that whilst most of the cars like yours were made in white, our car was definitely the only one in Signal Green.
09-06-2006, 09:44 PM
#23
Nordschleife Master
A few more interesting pieces of information. Look at your front hubs. The early Cup cars have an aluminum hub, although most of the ones I've seen have steel hubs. I suspect that the aluminum ones were prone to failure and have been replaced, or were replaced with steel as a running change. The 964 service manuals outline the exact body changes an RS has, including the placement of the seam welds. I believe it is in the chassis section, I copied the pages and used them as a reference when I seam welded my car. In addition, the additional bracing for the front tow hook, battery cut off, new ABS control unit placement and such are all listed in that section.
Check the front tub, I believe the 1990 chassis to have only the inboard mounting position for the front suspension, not both like the later chassis which would be 1991 and later to accomodate the 964 Turbo suspension and later in 1993 the 964RSR.
Check the brake master cylinder, it should have a pressure switch to switch off the ABS unit under "panic stops" so you can turn off the ABS when the car is spinning. I believe this was a 1990 only part that was removed in the later cars (although I have seen them in the later cars from time-to-time.)
The proper steering wheel is a Momo unit (Model 07 I believe).
The hub carriers should be 964 Turbo parts, not regular Carrera parts
The 90 does not have the 964RS short shifter and the central tunnel does not provide facility to mout it. You'd need to remove the existing box and weld in the supeceeded part which allows proper fitment (cheap part).
I also see that yours is one of the unmolested ones that has the hood latches and no hood pins
The 964 Cups that come with an 'X' brace were ones that ran in the later Supercup series where the 'X' brace was mandatory and added later. Further, most of the Supercup cars also have air jacks installed.
Check the front tub, I believe the 1990 chassis to have only the inboard mounting position for the front suspension, not both like the later chassis which would be 1991 and later to accomodate the 964 Turbo suspension and later in 1993 the 964RSR.
Check the brake master cylinder, it should have a pressure switch to switch off the ABS unit under "panic stops" so you can turn off the ABS when the car is spinning. I believe this was a 1990 only part that was removed in the later cars (although I have seen them in the later cars from time-to-time.)
The proper steering wheel is a Momo unit (Model 07 I believe).
The hub carriers should be 964 Turbo parts, not regular Carrera parts
The 90 does not have the 964RS short shifter and the central tunnel does not provide facility to mout it. You'd need to remove the existing box and weld in the supeceeded part which allows proper fitment (cheap part).
I also see that yours is one of the unmolested ones that has the hood latches and no hood pins
The 964 Cups that come with an 'X' brace were ones that ran in the later Supercup series where the 'X' brace was mandatory and added later. Further, most of the Supercup cars also have air jacks installed.
Last edited by Geoffrey; 09-06-2006 at 10:00 PM.
09-06-2006, 09:51 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by Geoffrey
A few more interesting pieces of information. Look at your front hubs. The early Cup cars have an aluminum hub, although most of the ones I've seen have steel hubs. I suspect that the aluminum ones were prone to failure and have been replaced, or were replaced with steel as a running change.
Originally Posted by Geoffrey
The proper steering wheel is a Momo unit (Model 07 I believe)
http://www.carnewal-europe.com/cpx_p93078.htm
I put one of these in mine...thanks Gert. Yes, it's just a Momo 07, just has 'Porsche' on it...so, why not?
09-06-2006, 09:52 PM
#25
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Colin, I have a few 1990 Carrera cup posters with only one signal green 964 cup. Car #33 Kuemmerling racing, driven by I hope your sitting, Olaf Manthey. He finished in P1 over all that year. Here's a link to a copy of the poster. http://www.vpracing.com/Poster_Archives/1990/90251.html Do you have a Wagenpass???? Hope so Bob
09-08-2006, 05:29 AM
#28
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Right, not heard of that before but now I am all the wiser. We are still waiting on the paperwork arriving from the auction house, hopefully there will be a bit of history coming with it but I am not over hopeful.
09-08-2006, 05:08 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by fstockcarrera
The fuel tank is a 993 part # 100 liter tank that is still available from Porsche.
09-08-2006, 06:31 PM
#30
Nordschleife Master
The 92L fuel tank is option M545 and part number 99320102103. You'll also need a few other smaller parts like the strap, etc that are specific to the larger tank. It is bolt in.