Lefty's Deceiver

I looking to buy a C2/4 and want to track the car. The BMW clubs do not allow cabrios to be tracked unless full roll cage and hard top.

What does PCA and SCCA allow?

Thanks

Lefty

Bill Gregory

Assume you're talking racing vs drivers education. Targa's are run in PCA racing all the time. Rules are at <a href="http://www.pca.org/pca/clubrace/docs/forms.htm" target="_blank">http://www.pca.org/pca/clubrace/docs/forms.htm</a> If you're talking drivers education, then look at <a href="http://www.pca.org" target="_blank">www.pca.org</a> and pick the region covering where you'd be driving, and look at their rules.

Currently another similar thread <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001524" target="_blank">here</a> on C2 vs C4 for track usage, you may want to read that thread too.

MelissaM

Lefty (or his deceiver ),

When I looked a few years ago, Targa's were OK on the track in PCA and SCCA events. The roll hoop was sufficient protection. As Bill mentioned, check the latest rules for your PCA and SCCA regions, and also see if the race track you're going to mentions targas. (Some clubs allow cabriolets to go without rollbars, but some of the tracks they run on don't allow it.)

Another thing to consider is that targas have more chassis flex than coupes. For those of us who just want to have some fun on the race track, it probably doesn't matter, but serious track folk will get coupes. Heck, the serious track folks try to get coupes without a sun roof.

Oh, another thing you might consider is headroom. If you're tall, you might see if you can fit in a coupe or targa with your helmet on, as this is an issue for some.

Good luck!

-- Melissa

Lefty's Deceiver

Thanks guys.

Melissa, I currently track my BMW M3 and I'm dying to get a C2 Coupe but the only decent one in my area, Chicago, is a Targa (pale blue = sweet). I'd actually like an RS America. Oh well the quest continues.

BTW Lefty's Deceiver is a fly used for saltwater fly-fishing

Cheers,
Lefty

MelissaM

Lefty,

[quote] BTW Lefty's Deceiver is a fly used for saltwater fly-fishing <hr></blockquote>

Thanks for the info -- I would have never guessed.

I think you can get a 6 month PCA membership before you own a Porsche, and that would allow you to search their classifieds, which are now online. That might help you get your hands on a nice RS America.... PCA's website is <a href="http://www.pca.org." target="_blank">www.pca.org.</a>

What year is the Targa? Do you know about the things to look out for on early 964's? You can search the archives for some detailed information, but the basic things are the flywheel, the leakage from the cylinder head, and the distributor belt.

This is not to say that you should avoid early 964's altogether -- I own one myself and it's a mighty fine car.

-- Melissa

UrbanSasquatch

You CAN club race a Cabriolet with the PCA. Carlos Casabal does with his '84 Carrera.

He has it fitted with a full roll cage which presumably helps with torsional stiffness, although it is nowhere near that of a coupe.

C2 is the best choice for PCA Class F. This is a highly competitive class, however, with some incredible drivers who have spent mid-five-figures preparing their cars (over the cost of acquisition) so be forewarned, these guys are turning 1:00 times at Lime Rock Park.

Why don't you come join us at Gingerman later this month, either at the Chicago region DE or the Club Race the following weekend, and scope it out, and talk to some of the C2 guys? I also heard that guys have bought C4's and fitted the C2 drivetrain, something about greater torsional stiffness, and the rule book doesn't distinguish between the 4 wheel drive and the 2 wheel in terms of weight. Have never heard of somebody racing a 4, however.

Good luck!

John

1971 911E H-Stock PCA Club Racer
1991 C2 Cabriolet
2001 VW Eurovan Track Support Vehicle

joey bagadonuts

UrbanSquash (sp?),

How exactly do you spend mid-five figures on a "stock" car without progressing a Class or two? The Club Racing rules seem to limit you a great deal relative to engine, suspension and body modifications. What gives?

I'm not a racer, but I thought some day I might want to look into it. For now, I'm just a curious spectator. I know I'm off-topic, but a brief commentary on the most popular loopholes would satisfy my curiousity.

RogerJ

joey, it's easy. About $10K at a time!

A high quality engine rebuild will go over $10K. You can spend over $10K on a high end rollcage, seats, belts, and all the other safety goodies nicely installed. Two sets of race wheels with Hoosiers - $10K. Then there's suspension, brakes, transmission, clutch, trailer, etc., etc..

joey bagadonuts

Roger,

This reminds me of Robert Duvall's line to Tom Cruise in "Days of Thunder":

"Son, there's nothin' stock about a stock car."

I'm sure a full-blown race exhaust is something I should budget for as well. Maybe I'll stick to DE's until I hit the lottery.

UrbanSasquatch

Joey- correct observation about "Stock" really not being "stock."

The "Spirit" of the rules is that you should be able to take a perfectly stock Porsche to the track and race it competitively, just like the SCCA guys did in the '50's (tape over the headlights on your XK140 and head for the hay bales) but "Stock" is pretty far from it. Example: One of the advantages of the 964 over the earlier cars is the ease of adjustability of the suspension- you buy a "Cup" suspension from europe ($5k) and then can spend $$$ setting it up so the car hooks up, for the particular track you are running at. Different track= different setup. Heck, even with a pre-964 Carrera guys are running 245 front and 275 rear tires on custom-offset Fikse's ($5k per set + hoosiers) and you have to stiffen the daylights out of the suspension to get them to clear. Custom valved bilstein shocks or JRZ/Ohlins with remote reservoirs. Away go the factory bumpers fore and aft which are replaced by lightweight carbon fiber stuff- even if you have to bolt a plate from your weight bench under the passenger seat to make minimum weight- the reduction in polar moment justifies the change. Huge spoiler (not wing) to the limit of the rules. Front splitter. Full cage. Sway bars. Strut brace. Monoballs at all four corners. Radios. Video System to document rule infractions by other drivers. All this stuff is permitted by the rules and everybody has it- the "Stock" limitation is intended to provide some kind of a reasonable cap on the amount of money people will spend to go faster. And when you get to GT. . .

Having said that, one could bolt in a cage, add single racing seat and harnesses, a battery-cutoff switch and some decals and enter the race. Sheep in among the wolves IMHO. I know guys who have largely stock carreras who drive to and from the club races- but the seriously competitive guys have maximized every possible variable to the absolute limit of the rule book.

Also, in PCA you can still race in "Stock" by making "Prepared" modifications that will bump you up a class or two- it's not uncommon to find people who have put on HUGE brakes and the other permitted "prepared" mods running one class higher than they would if perfectly stock.

Come on out to Gingerman and check it out! We are going to have a blast.

JFC

joey bagadonuts

End of June, right? Maybe we'll see you there.