cobalt

I wanted to start a thread that we could possible make stick at the top one day to answer all the questions about the 964. There are many threads on different forums like this but usually comparing the 964 against another Model like the 993.

I want this to be a compendium of knowledge that the 964 buyer or owner can reference for quick access to everything 964. It will take a while to populate and I am not sure I have enough time so maybe we can do this collectively.

I wanted to start with all the false information about production numbers. There are many sources like Red Book and Adrian's enthusiast guide that are still using old info that I have researched for years and eventually Porsche came out and confirmed my assumptions in Volume 2 of their of their Classic Originale stating as i suspected that the first 60 units of each MY Porsche begins in 061 and not 001 as others have been using for years. I have tried my best to compile numbers from varying sources which I know and trust as being as accurate to date as any.

So this is what I have so far and would like feedback from others. I had this down cold a few years back and I never did anything with it. Unfortunately that PC froze and I could not retrieve the documents. So I have recompiled the numbers to the best of my knowledge. I don't believe I have made mistakes but I am sure there is info I am missing as I recall the numbers being slightly different. In either case they do vary considerably over what is found when goggling 964 production numbers. My numbers reduce the total production of the 964 from what most use 65,389 to 58,228. Although it isn't just the total but the actual production of coupes, targas, cabs and specialty models that changes as well. Unfortunately I am using a Mac and I have no Excel so I tried to make a chart on the mac which won't transfer so I crudely turned it into a word document and haven't been able to figure a way to post it properly so it can be seen here. I am not the most tech savvy so if anyone wants to help that would be appreciated. meanwhile these are then numbers to the best of my knowledge. Excuse the crude format.

Bossing

GentlemanRacer

This comes at the most opportune time!
Good luck sir

cobalt

Bossing many thanks.

I plan to add a new topic regarding the 964 each week and see what comes of it.

jwbavalon

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Anthony.

Marine Blue

Excellent idea Anthony, it really would be nice to gather specifics for the 964 as I imagine there are and will continue to be many new buyers looking for a place to learn about these awesome Porsche’s.

I look forward to your upcoming posts.

j_leder

This can be a very interesting thread...Thanks for starting..

chsu74

Thank you for sharing this wealth of knowledge.

cobalt

There is so much to learn and I am still learning everyday. The numbers I posted are a bit rough and could use some tweaking so if anyone wants to chime in and help that would be nice. I noticed a few mistakes like the 326 America roadsters should actually be broken down to 250 1992 MY cars and 76 should carry the 1993 MY vin although if they were 718 coded or not is a (?). Also I noticed that I included the 21 US 1994 spec targas in the count for total made US. It is possible these are being double counted since they are 718 coded.

It would be nice if Porsche was a little more open about these years and release more data. Knowing how many of the US spec cars made it here vs Canada would be nice although I only have info for the definitive number of turbos imported to Canada vs the US. There are differences in the cars and the 94's don't carry the US vin tag's on the panels as required by the US as the US spec cars do this is covered by TSB 9301 which also applies to 1989 MY cars. (this is a reliable reference point for judging if an 89 or 94 has been painted or not)

For those interested in the number of Canadian spec turbos imported
1991 MY....33
1992 MY....15
1994 MY....13
1994 MY....2 with X88 power package (only X88 power packaged turbos imported to the states)(these are similar to the Package cars although don't have the side ducts, S tail pipes or massive single piece S wing)
1994 MY...2 X88 package cars (Only 15 of the 17 were sold in the US).

Although I am not 100% sure of the 3.3L production numbers my info shows that based on a starting vin of 061 and ending at vin 674 there should be 614 1991 turbos imported although Norbert and Faranz claim only 613. They also make the same claim for MY 1992 with only 248 noted. Either there is an error in their info or one less car was produced in each MY. I did check the last vin's on many of the models to verify that they were accurate using access I had to Porsche's data base (I no longer have access to) and the last vin numbers AFAIK are correct so it is hard to say what the actual count is. In either case this is a minor point in such low quantities produced.

cobalt

As usual I had good intensions of adding content but things change and I got busy.

I brought up TSB 9301 earlier which is important to US spec vehicle and although this applies to 1994 MY cars it also applies to the 89 MY cars. These are good indicators if panels have been replaced or if paint work has been done. I have seen a small number of either counterfeit or stickers that were removed and replaced in the wrong location. I have seen enough of these stickers to know that they are very close to their indicated location per the TSB and when I see a car with one that is not remotely in the correct location it throws up a red flag in my book.

Here is a recent case of a 94 that was listed for sale and the seller states the car was original paint. Being a white car it is very hard to see indicators that are far more visible on darker or other colors from pictures however when I see a sticker in a location that is not even remotely close to where it belongs I have to question the entire car.



This isn't remotely close to where the sticker should be located. I have looked at many of these cars and never once have I seen one in this location. Is it possible a mistake was made?? Maybe but my experience says no. So when I see this I suspect something isn't right about the entire car and I must assume the meter readings presented for this car in the 7+ range are indicative of paintwork and warrants more investigation. I also find the sticker itself to be suspect since the vin number is usually centered between the Porsche font which usually isn't so dark. There are other issues I see as well but that is for another time.

You can see the correct placement of the sticker on my car. As you can see it is not on the left near the hinge but on the right along the edge as the TSB states and where I have seen them on all others +/- a slight location of the sticker along the same edge.




Here is a shot of one of mine close up and as you can see they do vary but that needs to be investigated.

Sirenty

Does that only apply to ‘94 cars? I don’t have the VIN sticker, but I do have that emissions sticker and the other one.

heliolps2

Hey Anthony

I hope all is well and Thank you for the forum. I worked for Newport Porsche back in the 90's I believe those stickers were deal installed or installed at the PCNA Reno location at the time before delivery. Those stickers were USA only and most likely not exactly installed in the same location every time by the tech, Maybe I'm wrong but just a thought.

Helio

cobalt

They were applied to the US only and only on the 89 and 94 MY cars. The explanation is in the TSB. I am assuming it can be downloaded. I don't know who applied them however I have seen hundreds of these MY cars and I always check for them when I see them. It is possible it was improperly applied although never have I seen a car with them so off from where it belongs. I have a friend who sold these back in the day and he had no knowledge of them being dealer installed. Someone wasn't doing their job correctly if it was. I did say I use it as an indicator and if I see it, it throws up a red flag which warrants further investigation. If I see something like this I would meter the paint and check for obvious signs of respray, tape lines or other indicators. In the case the back end of the car the meter readings were all between 7.0 and 9.0. I have metered many of these cars and I have yet to see an all original paint car with numbers consistently that high. This is usually indicative of some form of respray although I would need to see the car up close to verify my concerns. It is possible that this is original paint and sticker although these make a decent tool to check these cars when purchasing.

This is a good place for anyone with a sticker in varying locations on an 89 or 94 to share. The idea is to give people an indication of what they should expect to see when buying these cars. If there are others out of place that would help this thread and educate all of us.

Interesting that an 89 C4 was just listed on BaT. Quick look and the car looks clean although picture 98 shows the sticker on the lid on the flat part instead of along the edge like mine. I have seen them in both locations but never on the wrong side before this white one. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...ign=2019-10-09

heliolps2

Thank you Anthony , Very well explained. We appreciate you sir

Vegas993

My '94 has it in the same spot as Anthony's although the printed VIN is no longer visible. I never noticed it before this thread.