HyperMike

Hi all,

In my quest to find my first Porsche I have a question for the collective wisdom of Rennlist. I found some past threads on this but nothing recent and since values of these cars seems to change rapidly I thought I'd try and get an update. My question is:

If a car had high mileage (say >100K miles) but had a quality rebuilt motor, updated suspension, good paint, clean interior, basically everything addressed to be as new (or at least better than mileage would suggest), would it be worth as much as the same car (in similar condition) with lower mileage?

My goal in all of this is not to purchase a "garage queen" for investment but rather to find a car that I enjoy driving but won't necessarily lose my shirt on if I were to sell it a few years down the road...my wife likes to say I have automotive ADD!

I appreciate and look forward to hearing your thoughts on this!

Cheers,
Mike

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Excellent question, Mike.

For me, its all about WHO did that rebuilt motor, suspension work, paint, and other maintenance. Thats what separates high-mileage cars from one another.

Each car must be judged and evaluated on its own merits.

Marine Blue

All things being equal (which is rarely the case) IMHO the lower mileage car will always be worth more.

A lower mileage cosmetically perfect car which needs some mechanical updates will be worth about the same if not more than a very good condition high mileage car with all mechanicals done. My idea of mechanical updates would be a reseal and maybe top end to the tune of $10k.

But if you intend to pile on the miles and continue the maintenance I would think a higher mileage example priced slightly less than the low mileage car would be a wiser purchase. If you go the low mileage route and spend $10k on mechanicals your now well above the high mileage car price and if you pile the miles on you'll have additional depreciation.

The best solution is to buy the car and enjoy it and don't worry about the values. Who knows what the future holds for these cars and it's not about the $$, it's about the experience.

dlpalumbo

I try to find low mileage cars. I have learned that even if the car has low mileage the owner may have not kept up with maintenance simply because he didnt notice problems due to lack of use. For example TBs may not have been done. The will look great though.

Good luck,

Dan

onevoice

Low mileage wins. Everything in a car that moves has a finite life, and wears, even if it is cared for. Some things are cheap, some not. Looseness creeps in places you don't normally think of, i.e. things that are "lifetime". Steering rack, gearbox, shifter, pedal pivots, steering column, door latches, ignition and all other switchgear, etc, etc. May sound silly to some, but many of those things are parts you touch, and interface with. 100k isn't worn out by any means, but occasionally you see cars with 200-250k+, I wouldn't touch one of them with a ten foot pole.

Also, a rebuild or reseal on a mid mile car, ie 50k to 100k will probably be cheaper. Likely a lot more parts reusable.

Same with tracked cars. Things wear a lot more quickly at track levels of stress. Going to the track won't kill it, but it is silly to think it doesn't accelerate wear.

Spyerx

I’ve seen plenty of low mile cars that are not nearly as clean as mine. In fact saw a leak report on a sub 30car with high numbers.

Steve speaks the truth.

hillsdonsmith

"its all about WHO did that rebuilt motor". This! I purchased a 964 C2 last year and paid a pretty penny for it in part b/c it had a top end done by a "highly regarded shop" very recently. Car has had a very smelly oily exhaust since acquisition and it turns out that valve guides were not done while engine out so this winter, we'll need to drop engine again to presumably address valve guides/identify any other issues. Mike J to the rescue 👍!

Regardless, the car has verified all original paint and to me that is enormously valuable as it is quite uncommon for 90k mile car and you can't undo body work, whereas can redo motor work all day long.

Good luck in your search!

Cheers


Mark

tgil

Assuming you are interested in an aircooled 911-
Unfortunately for you now even higher miles (say 100k or greater) cars, depending on condition, maintenance, refreshing, etc, are going to cost you a lot more than just 2 years ago, like $10k, 15k, or even 20k more.
On the positive side, those cars are bringing more money, holding their value, maybe even appreciating.
Other RL,ers have provided best advice.
Good luck.

cweed

Marine Blue is on the mark +1 to what he said.

911Jetta

I'm at 150,000+ miles, my dad's car is 80,000 miles. Some parts of his car seem tighter, some parts of mine feel more solid than this. I've been in a couple other 964s and nothing is consistent.

I don't see miles as being an issue with these cars at all. I've had mine over 10 years and have driven it over 50,000 miles. If anything, it's gotten better as I've upgraded parts of the car.

When friends ride in the car, I tell them it will go for 500,000 miles, and no one ever seems to doubt that...

There aren't many of these cars and they are a lot of fun to drive, so I don't see you losing much money on a 964 in the near future, especially if you get a good car in the first place.

Really the only way to lose your shirt is if you find yourself doing an engine rebuild in the next couple of years. It would take awhile to recoup the $10-20,000 cost.

HyperMike

Hi everyone...sorry I haven't been back to check on this thread until now but busy with work and trying to find my new (to me) Porsche!

I appreciate all the input on my question...guess I shouldn't be too surprised at the variety of opinions! My takeaway is that, generally, lower miles is better but I shouldn't necessarily be afraid of high miles if the specific vehicle's condition is exceptional for the mileage and the price reflects the miles.

For the record, this was the car that got me thinking about the value of higher mileage vehicles...still contemplating it!
https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...uild-17-a.html

Cheers,
Mike

John McM

When the owner of that vehicle posted about selling or resealing the engine, I wrote:

"In my experience the sale price of a car doesn't necessarily reflect the cost of all the work required to get it in good condition.

If you are not a long term holder or a diy type I would sell the car as is. If you do pay for the work you will likely end up upside down on its value."

If my calcs are correct you would be paying cents on the dollar to buy his car now that the engine is rebuilt. It's a great base for happy 964 ownership. I have a thread with 800 + posts of fixes on my cars. You don't want to be me unless you love DIY. Buy on condition.

onevoice

Well to get back to the original question, the answer is still no. In "same car" (high mileage to low mileage) condition, the low car will always sell for more. The question wasnt a high mile resto vs a low mile beater. The referenced car for sale above would have been gone long ago if it was 70k - 100K miles instead of almost 170K. Even though it looks really nice.

Yes condition is important, ALWAYS, but the market most definitely devalues high mile cars. Everyone talks about buying on condition and you should, but to the vast majority of the public, you sell on miles. Buy that car and run it up to 200K+ and it would be a really hard sell.

Jjm4life

Steve nailed t, it’s all about who built it, and the quality of parts used. My car at 130k is light years beyond what it arrived looking like with 112,500 on the clock. I’ve also seen some low(Er) mike examples that aren’t nearly as tight as mine is. Maybe I’m biased, but you by the previous owner more so than you buy the car. Lower vs higher mileage doesn’t stop with the odometer, and that seems to be the general consensus around here

HyperMike

Thank you for your post...it made me realize that my original question wasn't worded quite the way I meant!

Let's say, hypothetically I buy the car with 160K miles with effectively a new motor, updated suspension and really good overall condition at a "market appropriate" price taking into consideration it's miles AND condition. Let's then say that 3 years and 20K miles later the market for 964's in general has moved upwards. Is it reasonable to expect that my car would move upwards with the market (assuming I've given it appropriate care and feeding and it's still in great condition) or would the mere fact of 180K miles mean it stays flat or drops in value relative to what I paid for it?

Cheers,
Mike