Which Head Gasket for me?
10-27-2003, 05:27 AM
#61
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Jon Schepps,
your HG doesn't look as bad aa mine did, but I was running more boost and had a real bad lean situation which i induced. I installed the gasket from Danno @ Guru and have had no problem. i ran it up to 20 psi yesterday w/o problem. My HG was much more distorted than yours at the #4 cyl 7 O'clock position. I highly recommend the Guru gasket, and if you need, I can help you with it. My parents live near Flemington. for me i'm in the USAF reserve @ McGuire AFB, and should be there next week. i'd be glad to help you if you needed. Unfortunately for me, i've gotten pretty good at doing HG's. i think i've done my HG for the last time this time. i drive my car really hard and i think now it will finally stand the test of time. you can email me @: mutzman951@aol.com if you want any more info. i have digital pics and plenty of experience.
Good luck!
dug
your HG doesn't look as bad aa mine did, but I was running more boost and had a real bad lean situation which i induced. I installed the gasket from Danno @ Guru and have had no problem. i ran it up to 20 psi yesterday w/o problem. My HG was much more distorted than yours at the #4 cyl 7 O'clock position. I highly recommend the Guru gasket, and if you need, I can help you with it. My parents live near Flemington. for me i'm in the USAF reserve @ McGuire AFB, and should be there next week. i'd be glad to help you if you needed. Unfortunately for me, i've gotten pretty good at doing HG's. i think i've done my HG for the last time this time. i drive my car really hard and i think now it will finally stand the test of time. you can email me @: mutzman951@aol.com if you want any more info. i have digital pics and plenty of experience.
Good luck!
dug
10-28-2003, 05:05 PM
#62
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Mutzman951,
From other posters expereince, as well as my own, the true test will be when you crest 1000 miles with that Cometic gasket. Additionally, mine works fine until you get the car fairly hot from driving in stop and go traffic. So, you may not experience any issues unless you get the car in the upper temperature range.
Sean
From other posters expereince, as well as my own, the true test will be when you crest 1000 miles with that Cometic gasket. Additionally, mine works fine until you get the car fairly hot from driving in stop and go traffic. So, you may not experience any issues unless you get the car in the upper temperature range.
Sean
10-28-2003, 09:18 PM
#63
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I spoke with Cometic today, and learned the following:
1. They make 2 versions of their MLS gaskets- one for turbo applications and one for NA. The turbo versions have thickened metal around the cylinders to increase clamping pressure. The NA gaskets do not (i.e. they are uniform thickness througout). The turbo version should NOT be used with O-ringed heads or decks.
2. They make these gaskets to order, and can easily accomodate custom bore sizes (as long as its smaller than some max, like 106mm)and a variety of thicknesses, at no extra charge.
3. Their standard MLS gasket is viton coated.
Jon.
1. They make 2 versions of their MLS gaskets- one for turbo applications and one for NA. The turbo versions have thickened metal around the cylinders to increase clamping pressure. The NA gaskets do not (i.e. they are uniform thickness througout). The turbo version should NOT be used with O-ringed heads or decks.
2. They make these gaskets to order, and can easily accomodate custom bore sizes (as long as its smaller than some max, like 106mm)and a variety of thicknesses, at no extra charge.
3. Their standard MLS gasket is viton coated.
Jon.
10-28-2003, 10:22 PM
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Jon,
FYI, that plate is .003" thicker then the rest of the headgasket.
All,
I imagine motors with iron sleeves, such as mine, would ideally have the ring thickness equal to the difference in expansion of the block and sleeve... hmmm, more homework to do...
Sean
FYI, that plate is .003" thicker then the rest of the headgasket.
All,
I imagine motors with iron sleeves, such as mine, would ideally have the ring thickness equal to the difference in expansion of the block and sleeve... hmmm, more homework to do...
Sean
10-29-2003, 12:19 PM
#65
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Well,,,I guess I will speak up and eat the humble "crow" pie and offer up an apology to Tony G on the head gasket issue. I was not ready to let the WFHG off as a pc of crap, well certianly not the best one available now for our cars......Tony, I apologize. Because the PORSCHE gods were not kind Monday. I blew mine. So, damn this crow pie is awful tasting! I wasn't even going to post anything,,but hey, I was wrong.
I had perfect A/F ratios with the car at 17 psi. I was messing around for a few days at 18 psi. I noticed I was a bit lean, 13.1 at around 6000 rpm. Not to bad but under 18psi, not good(and on 96 octane). Anyway, as I was turning the **** down to check the manual gauge, my next run was still almost 18, and she went. Nice could of white steam. I turned the **** WAY down to 12 and it didn't blow by, then to 15 and got a very little amount. I was 5 min from home and home she went. So at this point it is not a major blow but still blown. I marked the coolant tank the next morning - cold, drove the car around town for around 30 minutes, very minimal. Let it cool completely, oil is perfect, coolant tanked dropped about 3mm form cold to cold.
So yes a new Cometic gasket is on the way and that is what I will be installing, when I help jwl on his Vitesse kit and upgrade( he too will put on the Cometic). So at this point,,factory studs, Raceware, or ARP?
I will put the car back 17 psi afterwards and be happy..
I had perfect A/F ratios with the car at 17 psi. I was messing around for a few days at 18 psi. I noticed I was a bit lean, 13.1 at around 6000 rpm. Not to bad but under 18psi, not good(and on 96 octane). Anyway, as I was turning the **** down to check the manual gauge, my next run was still almost 18, and she went. Nice could of white steam. I turned the **** WAY down to 12 and it didn't blow by, then to 15 and got a very little amount. I was 5 min from home and home she went. So at this point it is not a major blow but still blown. I marked the coolant tank the next morning - cold, drove the car around town for around 30 minutes, very minimal. Let it cool completely, oil is perfect, coolant tanked dropped about 3mm form cold to cold.
So yes a new Cometic gasket is on the way and that is what I will be installing, when I help jwl on his Vitesse kit and upgrade( he too will put on the Cometic). So at this point,,factory studs, Raceware, or ARP?
I will put the car back 17 psi afterwards and be happy..
10-29-2003, 01:10 PM
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That stinks Brett,
I vote for ARP studs.
Will you use copper spray on the headgasket ? I did
Sean Hall thinks his metal gasket is leaking coolant and I have some of the same indicators as he with my Guru gasket.
I vote for ARP studs.
Will you use copper spray on the headgasket ? I did
Sean Hall thinks his metal gasket is leaking coolant and I have some of the same indicators as he with my Guru gasket.
10-29-2003, 01:43 PM
#67
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Here's another data point: I drove my car to work this AM - about 25 miles. The temp kept under the first bar. No problems whatsoever.
Summary to date:
In the instances when water does leak into the combustion chambers, the only way I really know is my A/F gauge reads lean and doesn't fluctuate at all. So other than that, the car seems to run "okay" when water is leaking in.
Summary to date:
In the instances when water does leak into the combustion chambers, the only way I really know is my A/F gauge reads lean and doesn't fluctuate at all. So other than that, the car seems to run "okay" when water is leaking in.
10-29-2003, 01:49 PM
#68
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David,
I just put my Guru gasket on .. and did NOT put any copper spray on it. My wrench ... has used MLS and Cometic gaskets many times in the past for other applications ... and has never used copper spray. He called Cometic .. and they said that under no circumstances should you use the spray ... so we did not.
I will let you know how it all pans out.
944turbo
I just put my Guru gasket on .. and did NOT put any copper spray on it. My wrench ... has used MLS and Cometic gaskets many times in the past for other applications ... and has never used copper spray. He called Cometic .. and they said that under no circumstances should you use the spray ... so we did not.
I will let you know how it all pans out.
944turbo
Last edited by CarreraCup03; 10-29-2003 at 10:43 PM.
10-29-2003, 01:56 PM
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David,
I have had very good luck when I put my engine together on all of my gaskets dry. So I will probably install it dry. I used a small dab of sealant at the corners of the oil pan, no drips there, water pump dry, and oil cooler seal dry - no leaks.
The head gasket was my fault. I knew it was a touch lean at 18 and if I had managed to turn it down before it blew, it would have blown later I'm sure, maybe somewhere on a road trip so better to blow at home.
It has given me two years of FUN though!!!! I mean I play with the car pretty hard. I have some great hills, curves, around the lake..and a couple of nice straight runs along the dikes, if no traffic, for some high speed runs. There is one spot on big dike rd, you can see the whole road and if you hit the entrance of the "S" at around 60, you can easily hit 130-140 before braking. I had also made a couple of these runs before heading to the marina when the gasket blew. I'll go ahead and change belts too, they were due next year anyway.
I have had very good luck when I put my engine together on all of my gaskets dry. So I will probably install it dry. I used a small dab of sealant at the corners of the oil pan, no drips there, water pump dry, and oil cooler seal dry - no leaks.
The head gasket was my fault. I knew it was a touch lean at 18 and if I had managed to turn it down before it blew, it would have blown later I'm sure, maybe somewhere on a road trip so better to blow at home.
It has given me two years of FUN though!!!! I mean I play with the car pretty hard. I have some great hills, curves, around the lake..and a couple of nice straight runs along the dikes, if no traffic, for some high speed runs. There is one spot on big dike rd, you can see the whole road and if you hit the entrance of the "S" at around 60, you can easily hit 130-140 before braking. I had also made a couple of these runs before heading to the marina when the gasket blew. I'll go ahead and change belts too, they were due next year anyway.
10-29-2003, 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by 944turbo
David,
I just put my Guru gasket on .. and did NOT put any copper spray on it. My wrench ... has has used MLS and Cometic gaskets many times in the past for other applications ... and has never used copper spray. He called Cometic .. and they said that under no circumstances should you use the spray ... so we did not.
I will let you know how it all pans out.
944turbo
David,
I just put my Guru gasket on .. and did NOT put any copper spray on it. My wrench ... has has used MLS and Cometic gaskets many times in the past for other applications ... and has never used copper spray. He called Cometic .. and they said that under no circumstances should you use the spray ... so we did not.
I will let you know how it all pans out.
944turbo
I was instructed to use copper spray
10-29-2003, 05:59 PM
#71
ARP makes studs for the 944? Is this is a custom request for them?
10-29-2003, 06:42 PM
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ARP makes studs for the 944? Is this is a custom request for them?
) this is what SFR use when they built my engine so I guess the studs and nuts come together ?
10-29-2003, 09:44 PM
#73
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Just another data point, I put a MLS headgasket on my freshly rebuilt engine which has Darton liners. It lasted maybe 20 miles and started pressuring the coolant tank and upon taking the spark plugs out number one showed significant signs of water/glycol in the combustion chambers.
Lots of discussions and having machinists check the head and flatness of the blockand conclusion was that nothing was wrong. So instead of going back together with MLS gasket I put a WFHG and 2300 miles later no blown headgasket.
I used ARP studs which I got from Engine builders Supply http://ebsracing.com/ and in both cases did the torque of the head myself so I am comfortable that in my case the MLS didn't want to work with my block and head and I don't really know why.
Lots of discussions and having machinists check the head and flatness of the blockand conclusion was that nothing was wrong. So instead of going back together with MLS gasket I put a WFHG and 2300 miles later no blown headgasket.
I used ARP studs which I got from Engine builders Supply http://ebsracing.com/ and in both cases did the torque of the head myself so I am comfortable that in my case the MLS didn't want to work with my block and head and I don't really know why.
Last edited by dand86951; 10-31-2003 at 12:42 PM.
10-29-2003, 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by Ski
Well....has everyone used the factory torque specs and sequences? David, Sean, Dan, ??? Anyone else.
Well....has everyone used the factory torque specs and sequences? David, Sean, Dan, ??? Anyone else.
I did not retorque after running the engine, was told not needed with the ARP studs ?
Us big bore guys at 106mm don't have much of a choice in head gaskets, the 104 mm 968 gasket that has been used prior to these metal gaskets has to be modified at the front water jacket and not to mention the diameter is too small.