my 3L dyno
12-12-2015 | 07:04 AM
#106
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From: Australia
Perhaps we should start quoting some of the FB posts too. Then it really would resemble the Bold and the Beautiful in this thread...with a touch of Sopranos vs New Joisy Housewifes....
Great entertainment all the same. Keep it coming. ;-)
Great entertainment all the same. Keep it coming. ;-)
12-12-2015 | 08:30 AM
#107
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 521
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From: Tennessee
Wow.... interesting thread; lots of emotion, a ton of input, some good information, and some mis-information. Here's my .02, some of which has been mentioned, but bears repeating.
First, heat and humidity have a significant impact on power (reduced), and a 'corrected' output will not only provide more accurate and comparable data, but puts the number much closer to what JBrown is expecting.
Second, with that big turbo and a "race" cam, there is no way the engine has peaked at 6000. By extrapolating the graph, it's VERY likely this engine will make around 450 at 6500, and perhaps a bunch more at 7000.
Now, with temp/humidity corrected data, AND a pull to 7000, you may well have exceeded your expectations! Perhaps you can arrange one more pull? It seems like they'd get some positive exposure with the more accurate/higher output. I'd ask them to add some fuel to the WOT map, however. It's a bit lean.
I wouldn't touch anything (other than the fuel at WOT). You're where you wanted to be. I hope you enjoy it.
First, heat and humidity have a significant impact on power (reduced), and a 'corrected' output will not only provide more accurate and comparable data, but puts the number much closer to what JBrown is expecting.
Second, with that big turbo and a "race" cam, there is no way the engine has peaked at 6000. By extrapolating the graph, it's VERY likely this engine will make around 450 at 6500, and perhaps a bunch more at 7000.
Now, with temp/humidity corrected data, AND a pull to 7000, you may well have exceeded your expectations! Perhaps you can arrange one more pull? It seems like they'd get some positive exposure with the more accurate/higher output. I'd ask them to add some fuel to the WOT map, however. It's a bit lean.
I wouldn't touch anything (other than the fuel at WOT). You're where you wanted to be. I hope you enjoy it.
12-12-2015 | 09:22 AM
#108
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From: NY
the place who has my car said my 3 inch can only flow 300 wheel hp with the baffled muffler ... as you can tell im no expert and im still learning a ton about performance for the 951 ... they said i need a srt8 pipe 4 inch crank the boost up to 25-26 run e85 and i will have 500 wheel also 2.5 inch hard pipes.. i have SFR front mount with stock boost pipes .. i cannont see my pipes holding me back that much.. with 25psi and e85 i would be well over 500 wheel thats a F ton off boost especially with e85
12-12-2015 | 09:26 AM
#109
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From: NY
Wow.... interesting thread; lots of emotion, a ton of input, some good information, and some mis-information. Here's my .02, some of which has been mentioned, but bears repeating.
First, heat and humidity have a significant impact on power (reduced), and a 'corrected' output will not only provide more accurate and comparable data, but puts the number much closer to what JBrown is expecting.
Second, with that big turbo and a "race" cam, there is no way the engine has peaked at 6000. By extrapolating the graph, it's VERY likely this engine will make around 450 at 6500, and perhaps a bunch more at 7000.
Now, with temp/humidity corrected data, AND a pull to 7000, you may well have exceeded your expectations! Perhaps you can arrange one more pull? It seems like they'd get some positive exposure with the more accurate/higher output. I'd ask them to add some fuel to the WOT map, however. It's a bit lean.
I wouldn't touch anything (other than the fuel at WOT). You're where you wanted to be. I hope you enjoy it.
First, heat and humidity have a significant impact on power (reduced), and a 'corrected' output will not only provide more accurate and comparable data, but puts the number much closer to what JBrown is expecting.
Second, with that big turbo and a "race" cam, there is no way the engine has peaked at 6000. By extrapolating the graph, it's VERY likely this engine will make around 450 at 6500, and perhaps a bunch more at 7000.
Now, with temp/humidity corrected data, AND a pull to 7000, you may well have exceeded your expectations! Perhaps you can arrange one more pull? It seems like they'd get some positive exposure with the more accurate/higher output. I'd ask them to add some fuel to the WOT map, however. It's a bit lean.
I wouldn't touch anything (other than the fuel at WOT). You're where you wanted to be. I hope you enjoy it.
12-12-2015 | 09:39 AM
#110
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From: NY
Devon, I have to agree with all the wait and see advice. Your car should be awesome and so you are putting the horse before the cart. You don't even know if you have a problem, so no point trying to fix it yet. Its wasted energy.
As for Alberts behaviour on social media, personally I think it is incredibly unprofessional and says more about his nature and how he chooses to run his business, than it does about *the bad customer*. It certainly doesn't make me want to use his services, regardless of his alleged expertise and skill. If Albert is so swamped with work he doesn't have time to communicate directly with his customers, then it makes no sense that he can spend so much time and effort on social media talking about it all, airing his dirty laundry.
I can only think if Albert put the same effort he did into putting down a paying customer, on social media, into actually communicating with the customer in the first place, maybe this whole incident could have been avoided. Yes some customers need to be reassured and want constant updates, and that may not be easy or convienent but when a customer hands over their pride and joy and a large chuck of cash, then why wouldn't you do whats required to keep them updated and happy ? The customer isn't always right but he is always helping you to make a living, and putting food on your table. If it had been kept private and direct, it could have easily have been a far better outcome for both parties imo.
As for Alberts behaviour on social media, personally I think it is incredibly unprofessional and says more about his nature and how he chooses to run his business, than it does about *the bad customer*. It certainly doesn't make me want to use his services, regardless of his alleged expertise and skill. If Albert is so swamped with work he doesn't have time to communicate directly with his customers, then it makes no sense that he can spend so much time and effort on social media talking about it all, airing his dirty laundry.
I can only think if Albert put the same effort he did into putting down a paying customer, on social media, into actually communicating with the customer in the first place, maybe this whole incident could have been avoided. Yes some customers need to be reassured and want constant updates, and that may not be easy or convienent but when a customer hands over their pride and joy and a large chuck of cash, then why wouldn't you do whats required to keep them updated and happy ? The customer isn't always right but he is always helping you to make a living, and putting food on your table. If it had been kept private and direct, it could have easily have been a far better outcome for both parties imo.
yes you are correct.. His communication sucked but that did not set me off .. Once you block me off facebook ( that's how we planned the motor build though messages, he would update me there) The car was there so long and it had no progress i had to get up his *** about it. He did not like that at all. Then since his wife says im harassing then since they do not pick up the shop phone , read my message and ignore it. You can post stupid **** on facebook and ignore me after i spend Fing 22k on a dam motor ? I started getting annoyed i had enough so i told him i was unhappy... After that since i was blocked on face book. I get many PM from fellow 951 members sending me screen shots of him bad mouthing me which is INSANE .. note his wife also would hang up on me when i would call from a different number since they did not pick up when i did, I was trying to see what the hell if going on with my car and this lump sum off money i sent!!!.. Anyways you guys can see it all 1st hand , yes i am being a slight dick back to him bc of everything..... He suckered me in at 1st when i wanted to buld a motor me CALLED me ASAP and write me back with in seconds when i had a question. I fell for it and shipped the car to him. with promises this 3L would make close to 620 crank hp and he said would need few more up grades.. and then i was spending alot more then i wanted to so i could hit my goal..... The motor looks GREAT i am not saying be builds a ****ty motor, Just the way he runs a business is very unprofessional and childish.
12-12-2015 | 09:41 AM
#111
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From: NY
Its Insane how a business would talk on a PUBLIC form about a customer.. if you annoyed about the customer keep it in your household, Talk to your wife about it at dinner not the whole world lol
12-12-2015 | 10:46 AM
#113
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From: NY
Originally Posted by 74goldtarga
Does the engine have to be broken in before you spin it up to 7000k for tuning on a dyno? Isn't running a conservative tune and lower rpm good during the early phases?
12-12-2015 | 10:50 AM
#114
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From: denver, co
I don't think the intercooler or the intercooler piping is making a difference in power. A larger intercooler just helps keep heat soak at bay longer, it doesn't actually make any more power.
A larger exhaust may help you make more power but you'll need to get the car retuned for it. I'd also expect a slower spool and less low end with a 4" exhaust. Hard to say how much more you'll make with it.
I wouldn't run the motor to 7000 rpm until it has at least 1000 miles on it and it's broken in. They've probably set the rings but that motor won't be really broken in until at least 1000 miles are on it. Then on the dyno with someone who knows how to tune both that car and that Electromotive setup. Choose your tuner very, very carefully. Lots of shops say they know how to tune that combo, very few actually do....
A larger exhaust may help you make more power but you'll need to get the car retuned for it. I'd also expect a slower spool and less low end with a 4" exhaust. Hard to say how much more you'll make with it.
I wouldn't run the motor to 7000 rpm until it has at least 1000 miles on it and it's broken in. They've probably set the rings but that motor won't be really broken in until at least 1000 miles are on it. Then on the dyno with someone who knows how to tune both that car and that Electromotive setup. Choose your tuner very, very carefully. Lots of shops say they know how to tune that combo, very few actually do....
12-12-2015 | 10:58 AM
#115
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From: NY
Originally Posted by docwyte
I don't think the intercooler or the intercooler piping is making a difference in power. A larger intercooler just helps keep heat soak at bay longer, it doesn't actually make any more power.
A larger exhaust may help you make more power but you'll need to get the car retuned for it. I'd also expect a slower spool and less low end with a 4" exhaust. Hard to say how much more you'll make with it.
I wouldn't run the motor to 7000 rpm until it has at least 1000 miles on it and it's broken in. They've probably set the rings but that motor won't be really broken in until at least 1000 miles are on it. Then on the dyno with someone who knows how to tune both that car and that Electromotive setup. Choose your tuner very, very carefully. Lots of shops say they know how to tune that combo, very few actually do....
A larger exhaust may help you make more power but you'll need to get the car retuned for it. I'd also expect a slower spool and less low end with a 4" exhaust. Hard to say how much more you'll make with it.
I wouldn't run the motor to 7000 rpm until it has at least 1000 miles on it and it's broken in. They've probably set the rings but that motor won't be really broken in until at least 1000 miles are on it. Then on the dyno with someone who knows how to tune both that car and that Electromotive setup. Choose your tuner very, very carefully. Lots of shops say they know how to tune that combo, very few actually do....
12-12-2015 | 11:10 AM
#117
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From: NY
Originally Posted by docwyte
Kinda doubt the turbo will spool faster with the stock manifold and crossover pipe but I could be wrong...
12-12-2015 | 01:12 PM
#120
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,659
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From: Tucson and Greer Arizona
Dyno chart on my motor when the motor had a Precision 6262 turbo, 3" exhaust, SFR Billett muffler, Electromotive EMS, modified SFR intake, SFR headers, 2.7 slightly ported head with stock 951 exhaust valves, 52mm intake valves, hot pink injectors, vertical front mounted intercooler, stock 968 hydraulic cam, etc. Thought this would be helpful as this motor is basically you motors twin.
The blue line is at 16psi and the red was at 23 using 100 octane pump fuel. The tq drop, after considering all potential possibilities - remedies - is the heads CFM capability. One of these days I'll have more work done to open things up. Trust me, you don't feel it when driving!!
I've changed the turbo to a TIAL/Garrett SS HTA wheel BB Garrett center 3582 - T4 oil/water cooled setup. The 6262 was their ceramic BB unit. This unit was OK for this motor, but too laggy for me. The TIAL unit has full boost by 3500rpm and the BOV actually opens at 900rpm from the turbo producing boost! I have a video showing this. I've had a few of these cars and the current TIAL/Garrett setup is much better sized for my car. We're installing the Snow Meth kit, and after tuning will likely have even better spool from slightly advancing timing. The current tune is rich for safety, and my catch can after a few thousand miles had about 1/4 cup of oil/fuel. Heavy smell of fuel from being tuned, on purpose, fairly rich for safety. The Meth setup will allow a much higher margin of safety and we'll carefully add timing during the new tune.
I have Mustang tuning dyno charts with the new turbo, but this was done at 13psi and shut down by 6k - we were only tuning but did some WOT runs.
I can PM them to you if you'd like to see them. This particular Mustang type dyno for some reason doesn't replicate real world road behavior. On the road, you have full boost around 3500rpm, and begins to build at 2K. The Mustang dyno charts don't replicate this fact. Have videos showing otherwise. As shared earlier, dyno's are only relevant if the operator knows precisely how to input the data. This unit requires the car's weight and other data many operators will fudge to "prove" their parts amazing HP increases.
You're going to love driving your car. When will it be delivered?
G
The blue line is at 16psi and the red was at 23 using 100 octane pump fuel. The tq drop, after considering all potential possibilities - remedies - is the heads CFM capability. One of these days I'll have more work done to open things up. Trust me, you don't feel it when driving!!
I've changed the turbo to a TIAL/Garrett SS HTA wheel BB Garrett center 3582 - T4 oil/water cooled setup. The 6262 was their ceramic BB unit. This unit was OK for this motor, but too laggy for me. The TIAL unit has full boost by 3500rpm and the BOV actually opens at 900rpm from the turbo producing boost! I have a video showing this. I've had a few of these cars and the current TIAL/Garrett setup is much better sized for my car. We're installing the Snow Meth kit, and after tuning will likely have even better spool from slightly advancing timing. The current tune is rich for safety, and my catch can after a few thousand miles had about 1/4 cup of oil/fuel. Heavy smell of fuel from being tuned, on purpose, fairly rich for safety. The Meth setup will allow a much higher margin of safety and we'll carefully add timing during the new tune.
I have Mustang tuning dyno charts with the new turbo, but this was done at 13psi and shut down by 6k - we were only tuning but did some WOT runs.
I can PM them to you if you'd like to see them. This particular Mustang type dyno for some reason doesn't replicate real world road behavior. On the road, you have full boost around 3500rpm, and begins to build at 2K. The Mustang dyno charts don't replicate this fact. Have videos showing otherwise. As shared earlier, dyno's are only relevant if the operator knows precisely how to input the data. This unit requires the car's weight and other data many operators will fudge to "prove" their parts amazing HP increases.
You're going to love driving your car. When will it be delivered?
G