Darryl H

Awesome work guys, I tend to stay quiet on here but I've been following this car for quite a while!

333pg333

Yes, Paul is quite the talent inside a welding or racing helmet!

Yes, the rain kind of killed it a bit. Some guys went out just to please the crowd. The Tilton EVO went out and did a 1:32 on a damp track! Amazing!

So did we. Can't wait to see what the next motor brings us.

Thanks. Happy to oblige.

m42racer

Interested in your findings. Maybe the video is deceptive. Is the top gear a little long for the main straight or is there a lot of aero? Seems watching the tach the revs a a little slower to climb in top gear.

Engine note gives the appearance the engine is not losing power up at 7500- 8000 RPM? Amazing sound up there for one of these old 4 cyl truck engines!!!!

I think this engine shows that there is life in a 2.5L engine and you don't have to go big. I'm sure its not cheap to build and there are some special parts inside.

333pg333

That's actually 5th gear in a 6 speed box. Yes, a lot of aero for these cars. Big twin element rear wing and large splitter would certainly have a big effect on drag.

The cam and ports are massive on this motor. I wonder if it wasn't made for you some years ago? I think if we stuck with this motor a little more we might look at a different cam just to try and find a bit more bottom end. Also the turbo is a GTX3582r so it's quite big for a 2.5ltr single cam tractor motor.

Custom PD design Pauter rods & CP pistons. Modified PD crank. PD deckplate. Large headstuds which we've secured further with custom Timecerts. Custom PD head. Custom PD cam. We've O ringed the head and had some brass firing rings made up to sit in the grooves. Also a Copper headgasket. Running E85 through 2000cc injs. Good motor and as mentioned previously, will be up for sale pretty soon. Made decent power on a realistic dyno. Going through a 3" system turbo back. Assume that's big enough for a 2.5ltr. Looking at going to a larger exhaust for the 3.2ltr 16v motor though. Not sure on 3.5" or 4" yet?

m42racer

Maybe some of that is from when I was having engines built. Glad its getting use and its working for you.

So impressed at what you are doing. Its more than it looks.

Pauter Rods??? That doesn't sound right. I cannot imagine him building and engine with those.

333pg333

I'm not sure who it was built for but it's from an '83 n/a block. I had the feeling that it had been in the shop for some time. There were no rods or pistons in the motor and it was offered to me to use as an interim motor while the 16v one was in the works. So he designed some rods and pistons with those guys as he knows them. While they're resistant to change, they built them. He feels that his design will go unpatented and therefore available to others that order through them now. I don't know.

m42racer

In your earlier post you mention the Rods are Carrillo. That makes more sense to me as in all of the years I have known Neil, I have only known them to use Pankl, Arrow or Carrillo Rods. I have never seen a Pauter Rod in that shop. Certainly a popular choice but not his.

I'm interested to find out, are there other 944 Turbo engines running to 8000 RPM. Reason I ask is, how do they compare against this engine of yours? These other engines on this forum, the 4V Turbo engines, do they run that high in rev's. Cannot imagine whats coming if you are getting a 4V engine and it revs to 8000 RPM.
I am so impressed with what you are doing. Have you ever entertained the idea of bring that car states side?

333pg333

Sorry, you're totally correct. Carrillo rods not Pauter. I was mixing Pauter with Pankl. Pankl own Carrillo and CP so I was having a 'P' issue. My mistake!!

I don't know of too many that are revving to 8k. Michael Mount made some n/a motors that would go out to that. Not sure what rpm he sets with his forced induction motors though. I don't know what rpm the 16v will rev to. Not because there is anything wrong with revving them that high provided the correct components are installed, but he has designed the motor to produce some pretty low down tq as we felt we were missing some with the 2.5ltr motor. So he's gone with a 94mm offset crank (modified stock) to see what it will produce. The idea was to have the rods made up to I think 157mm but due to my request for the c/r not to go over 9:1 we had to use the other of the two forgings CP have to create the dish and that wouldn't allow for such a long rod. So it's back to 152mm from memory. Still a few mm longer than stock. We shall see what this one does and go from there. Neil's pretty keen on running a lighter crank from Arrow but it's dependent on if a certain size b/e bearing can be produced affordably. My latest brief wasn't to make this motor out of all the cutting edge components otherwise it would be all Arrow / Omega in there.

Initially when we resumed making the 16v we were going to go down to 2.4ltr and make something that could spin out to over 9000rpm but my budget dwindled quickly this year and as we have found out, that motor wouldn't suit an 'H' pattern gearbox anyway. Would love to build something like that plus install a Sequential gearbox, but that's just too hard financially so we will 'compromise' with the current build which should still produce some good results.

The best dyno I've seen for a 16v turbo is for Duke's which is approx 700bhp at little over 1 bar! I don't know what his redline is but doubt it's 8k. He's going back to a different dyno about now and wants to crank the boost up to 1.5bar. Shall be interesting! The other insane 968 down here dyno'd at 550whp @ 21psi but that was on a very soft tune. Once they get their fueling sorted and the 2nd set of injs to work we should see some good numbers from that motor. Their redline was 7300rpm then but they have solid lifters and could take it up substantially higher if they wish. I believe there was some thought about bringing his car overseas. Would be an interesting Pikes Peak proposition.

Tsmith84

Is this the RP968? Either way, whoever it is, put them in contact with me if they are serious about Pikes Peak. I may be able to help with the logistics of it all. I run a race shop in Colorado springs, and have been running cars up that mountain for the last few years. We are running 1 or 2 cars this year and will be supporting a couple others as well. I can PM you my contact info as needed.

333pg333

Yes, that's correct. I have no idea what their program is and would hazard a guess that the kitty is probably not at it's highest at the moment as you can see in Rod's thread! Be fantastic to see his car overseas though. It's certainly worthy of it that's for sure.

Duke

I run my 3.1l 16v turbo to 7500 rpm with hyd. lifters. 620 rwhp at 1.0 bar at a Rototest hub dyno earlier this spring. Going to another dyno on Tuesday and testing some higher boost. I'll probably max out the GTX3582R with 1.06 housing.

Pats new engine has a lot of stroke so I'd be more worried about piston speed at higher rpms than controlling the valves.

333pg333

I suspect that we won't need to rev to 8000rpm anyway however he has tried to design the pistons and rods to slow the pistons rotation at TDC (relatively speaking). My view has always been that you change when it feels right. As unscientific as that seems, you can hear and feel when it's time to change gears. Sometimes if you don't have quite the perfect gearing for a particular corner then you may need to hold rpms a little longer than desired. Unfortunately we only use 2 tracks and know the rpms on all corners with this 6 speed tractor shifter.

Sorry to say we don't have the luxury of a sequential transmission and are rocketing down the charts (lol) of the fastest Porsche Transaxles in the world now that Gustaf, Rod, and Tony G have all done away with their clumsy H pattern 'boxes that originated somewhere back in the 80's. More power to you I say (pun intended). Guess we'll have to be the poor cousin now.

Tsmith84

Only 2 tracks?

333pg333

Yes. For a landmass that is probably 90% the size of North America we have very few tracks by comparison. Of course our population is MUCH less at approx 25 million. So we have one major track in Sydney and the 2nd one is about 2.5 hours south of us. Just learning this track is going through some changes and will be restricting race cars a little more due to complaining neighbours! The 2nd track is litterally sitting amoung Sheep paddocks in the middle of nowhere. Can't believe how many killjoys there are trying to shut down racetracks!

m42racer

Not sure if I'm right but the mean Piston speed doesn't seem too high.

I think the resurrection of these old cars in race form is awesome. keep up the good work, all.

Patrick,

Just got off the phone with Neil. He tells me he's wants to raise the RPM limit further. Seems madness is on both continents.