16v head and turbo myths
05-01-2023, 06:19 AM
#136
That was interesting to re-read. So...Duke has gone from 16v Porsche motor to 16v billet Honda motor. Thingo has gone from 3.1lt 16v Porsche motor to insane billet 4lt 16v Thor creation. Thom has gone from 3lt 8v to 3lt 16v. successfully. I went from 3.1 8v to 3.2lt 16v. (The only thing that didn't crack on that was the head). I just received a newly MiD sleeved S2 block and had the head virtually completely rebuilt due to all sorts of problems from previous builder. By the time I get this back in the car it will be right up the very top of the most expensive Porsche i4 motors. Shawn and Sid are mostly out of the game. Guess the only constant is JET951 who continues to have success with their numerous 16v builds with to my knowledge NO failed heads. Obviously there are many more out there running non stock i4 motors. People seem to mostly be communicating via FB pages. Despite some of the disagreements in here from time to time, it's a shame that this forum has fallen away so much. There were some heady days in here and I still enjoy going back in the archives to see who was doing what and when. May it continue...
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333pg333 (05-01-2023)
05-13-2023, 06:42 PM
#137
Burning Brakes
That was interesting to re-read. So...Duke has gone from 16v Porsche motor to 16v billet Honda motor. Thingo has gone from 3.1lt 16v Porsche motor to insane billet 4lt 16v Thor creation. Thom has gone from 3lt 8v to 3lt 16v. successfully. I went from 3.1 8v to 3.2lt 16v. (The only thing that didn't crack on that was the head). I just received a newly MiD sleeved S2 block and had the head virtually completely rebuilt due to all sorts of problems from previous builder. By the time I get this back in the car it will be right up the very top of the most expensive Porsche i4 motors. Shawn and Sid are mostly out of the game. Guess the only constant is JET951 who continues to have success with their numerous 16v builds with to my knowledge NO failed heads. Obviously there are many more out there running non stock i4 motors. People seem to mostly be communicating via FB pages. Despite some of the disagreements in here from time to time, it's a shame that this forum has fallen away so much. There were some heady days in here and I still enjoy going back in the archives to see who was doing what and when. May it continue...
I don't think the FB groups have the same longevity as the forums so I hope someday it comes around full circle but that might be wishful thinking. Searching here is so much easier and still so much more information here than on FB.
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Jay Wellwood (05-17-2023)
05-13-2023, 09:42 PM
#138
Drifting
Decent S2/968 heads with cams that are in good condition, seem to have shot up in price in recent years. TurboTim fabricated a new crossover for his 3.0 16v engine, so I guess he decided the original crossover was restrictive.
05-15-2023, 04:22 PM
#139
Burning Brakes
There doesn't seem to be any shortage of bare heads so aftermarket cams might be a possibility. Or just find a whole 968/ S2 engine and start with that.
There is no way I would go 3.0 8v again but that is just my personal experience.
05-15-2023, 08:39 PM
#141
05-16-2023, 05:34 AM
#142
Drifting
If I sold my 944 turbo and all the parts I have for it, I'd probably get half what a 997 turbo goes for here. I probably won't be riding litre sports bikes for too much longer, so that would be another chunk of money to put into a toy car.
05-16-2023, 05:43 AM
#143
Feel free to get in touch if youre selling parts, haha
05-16-2023, 05:47 AM
#144
Rennlist Member
I think the 997 turbo is the sweet spot in the range - the obvious interior, mechanical & exterior improvements over the 996 turbo, but much smaller than the 991 & 992 series cars which were designed from the outset for hybridisation. Some would argue that perhaps the suspension could be made more focussed & interactive but that's a question of how you're going to use the car.
It's a question of how much money do you throw at a 30 year old car?
I now appreciate how much Porsche cheaped out on the 951 / 952 engines - largely because it was a RX7 / Supra competitor. it was never going to get a dry-sump, sleeved block, twin-cam head, closed deck, sequential ignition & injection, big turbo etc - it had to slot in under the 964 C2.
They were built to a price & many who have tracked their 951's have ended up paying that price.
It's a question of how much money do you throw at a 30 year old car?
I now appreciate how much Porsche cheaped out on the 951 / 952 engines - largely because it was a RX7 / Supra competitor. it was never going to get a dry-sump, sleeved block, twin-cam head, closed deck, sequential ignition & injection, big turbo etc - it had to slot in under the 964 C2.
They were built to a price & many who have tracked their 951's have ended up paying that price.
05-16-2023, 09:32 AM
#145
Drifting
I think a 944 turbo was around £23k in 1985, compare that to a Sierra RS Cosworth that was around £15k at the same time. IMO the 944 was a better engineered car, but the cylinder head and turbo setup was better on the Cosworth. There was probably no money, or reason to update the engine later on. And by 1990 the list price was around £45k anyway. I'm guessing it was cheaper to stick an extra 8 valves in the S2 and 968, than turbocharge them.
05-16-2023, 10:08 AM
#146
Rennlist Member
Depends where you live. Try coming to Australia. Probably still the best country to live in but we pay double+ for anything imported...ie...virtually everything.
Last edited by 333pg333; 05-16-2023 at 10:09 AM.
05-16-2023, 10:14 AM
#147
Rennlist Member
I think the 997 turbo is the sweet spot in the range - the obvious interior, mechanical & exterior improvements over the 996 turbo, but much smaller than the 991 & 992 series cars which were designed from the outset for hybridisation. Some would argue that perhaps the suspension could be made more focussed & interactive but that's a question of how you're going to use the car.
It's a question of how much money do you throw at a 30 year old car?
I now appreciate how much Porsche cheaped out on the 951 / 952 engines - largely because it was a RX7 / Supra competitor. it was never going to get a dry-sump, sleeved block, twin-cam head, closed deck, sequential ignition & injection, big turbo etc - it had to slot in under the 964 C2.
They were built to a price & many who have tracked their 951's have ended up paying that price.
It's a question of how much money do you throw at a 30 year old car?
I now appreciate how much Porsche cheaped out on the 951 / 952 engines - largely because it was a RX7 / Supra competitor. it was never going to get a dry-sump, sleeved block, twin-cam head, closed deck, sequential ignition & injection, big turbo etc - it had to slot in under the 964 C2.
They were built to a price & many who have tracked their 951's have ended up paying that price.
05-16-2023, 10:31 AM
#148
Rennlist Member
Unless you're doing the work yourself, it's arguable that tuning a 951 / 952 for significant & reliable performance by current standards (400+whp) is extortionately expensive & the money might be more constructively deployed towards a 996 / 997 GT3, M2 Comp or C63. We all know that modifying cars is the equivalent of fuelling your camp fire with $100 bills, but when a £600 remap can give your M2 Comp 510 bhp & with the BMW BBK it'll circulate the track all day & then comfortably get you home - you've got to question the whole 951 / 952 thing - I know I am - never again. I'd go more modern & get a modest remap & be driving it rather than constantly building it or fixing it.
I've tried to address the 952's weaknesses i.e. lack of a dry-sump, Alusil bores, open deck design, tiny old-fashioned high back pressure turbo, tiny cam, antiquated ECU - but I don't think it was worth it - I've wasted too much money on this thing - now I've got to own it for life.
Blade - I think going to whatever 911 turbo, GT3 or M-car fits your budget would be a wise move.
I've tried to address the 952's weaknesses i.e. lack of a dry-sump, Alusil bores, open deck design, tiny old-fashioned high back pressure turbo, tiny cam, antiquated ECU - but I don't think it was worth it - I've wasted too much money on this thing - now I've got to own it for life.
Blade - I think going to whatever 911 turbo, GT3 or M-car fits your budget would be a wise move.
05-16-2023, 11:04 AM
#149
I know we act like it but WA's not a seperate country yet.
You need to get more creative with your shipping if your paying double, but yes I've spent a lot of money on shipping and GST/tariffs lately.
05-16-2023, 03:35 PM
#150
Drifting