944Turbo S - Gouge in Cylinder Block - Need to bore
12-05-2014, 09:10 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
I have JE pistons in my NA engine; I'm very happy with them. But I worked with my engine builder to determine exactly what size I needed, what rings to get, etc.
12-05-2014, 10:11 AM
#32
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
You would need to put new rings and circlips on (the rings that are on the pistons right now are worn out).
As far as I can tell these are non-coated pistons as they were in a steel sleeved block.
I am 99% certain these are for a 4"/101.6mm bore so rings should be cheap and easily available (SBC, SBF). My calipers aren't accurate enough to give you an exact size. Like Van said, JE can help you pick exactly what you need to run these.
I can get more pictures of the pistons (skirts, crowns) later today.
The rods below are sold
12-05-2014, 10:49 AM
#33
Rennlist Member
So two months have passed and I am yet to find a good used 1987+ short block that I can simply swap in, without necessitating any machining work. So at this point I think I will have to bite the bullet and simply get my block bored and sleeved.
I contacted Clark’s Auto & Marine. Wes does work there any longer, but I spoke with Gary, who really seems to know his stuff. He quoted me about $1,000.00 for the work of decking, boring and installing the sleeves (I have to provide the sleeves). Is that a decent/normal price? If so I think I will go with him.
Also, I have to find the best bang for the buck kit - sleeves, pistons, rings - to install. What are you recommendations? Again, I don't want the best and most expensive kit, but the best compromise between cost and quality.
Thank you all for your help.
Cheers,
Igor
I contacted Clark’s Auto & Marine. Wes does work there any longer, but I spoke with Gary, who really seems to know his stuff. He quoted me about $1,000.00 for the work of decking, boring and installing the sleeves (I have to provide the sleeves). Is that a decent/normal price? If so I think I will go with him.
Also, I have to find the best bang for the buck kit - sleeves, pistons, rings - to install. What are you recommendations? Again, I don't want the best and most expensive kit, but the best compromise between cost and quality.
Thank you all for your help.
Cheers,
Igor
12-05-2014, 08:36 PM
#35
Race Car
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Austin TX, drinking beer in the garage
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Also eager to hear what was done for that price. I was recently quoted 1800+ to sleeve/deck/bore my block and offset grind a 2.5 liter crank. I'd be happy to ship my block and crank anywhere in the US, I think 1800 is a bit steep and its the only shop in the area that will do it.
12-05-2014, 09:11 PM
#36
Rainman
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My local/intended machine shop quoted $125 to grind the crank to fit Mitsu rods so definitely shop around.
They want to see the block before quoting sleeving though, but I already have a sleeved block so I didn't ask further.
They want to see the block before quoting sleeving though, but I already have a sleeved block so I didn't ask further.
12-05-2014, 09:16 PM
#37
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Location: Austin TX, drinking beer in the garage
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I somewhat wish I had gotten a sleeved block to start with, my logic was I was saving money getting a super cheap block locally that had a good crank with it, but I may have been fooling myself. Its insane the huge range of prices these shops want to charge to do this, it isnt uncommon work and porsche guys certainly are not the first people to sleeve blocks and machine crank journals. Specifically, the shop here in austin quoted me ~1100 for the sleeving and "700+" for offset grinding the crank. Ridiculous, and I didnt even mention it was for a porsche.. I think I'm going to end up having to ship my stuff off to a shop somewhere in teh country, which offsets the cost saving of buying a local engine.
12-05-2014, 10:47 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
Mike punched out the bore to 104.5 with finish hone to my set of Andial turbo pistons. Decked the block and head with a complete standard valve job new guides installed. I'd have to dig out the receipt but I'm pretty sure it was around $600. If the OP was so inclined he could ship his motor to Mike tell him what he wants and have a fully assembled short block come back. This place is the real deal. They do all the machine work for Greg Brown @ Precision Motorwerks, keeper of the GTR
12-06-2014, 02:56 AM
#40
Rennlist Member
Thank you V2Rocket_aka944, I'll let you know for sure. Do the pistons come with ring and pins, and are they coated?
333pg333, yes, in these past two months I have been regularly checking rennlist, pelican, ebay and craigslist for a good 1987+ block. Nearly all the 944 blocks that come up are from 1983-1986, and the very very few 1987 ones I have found need work or are an entire engine (so I can't know the condition of the cylinders, and really don't want to risk it). I think I have found one some time ago on ebay that seems decent, but it was in the east and the seller would not ship.
I still have some time before having to get the engine completed, so my search continues, but at the moment it seems I will have to simply have mine bored and sleeved.
Any comments on the quoted price and suggestions on sleeves, pistons and rings (a part from V2Rocket_aka944's offer).
Thank you all again.
Igor
333pg333, yes, in these past two months I have been regularly checking rennlist, pelican, ebay and craigslist for a good 1987+ block. Nearly all the 944 blocks that come up are from 1983-1986, and the very very few 1987 ones I have found need work or are an entire engine (so I can't know the condition of the cylinders, and really don't want to risk it). I think I have found one some time ago on ebay that seems decent, but it was in the east and the seller would not ship.
I still have some time before having to get the engine completed, so my search continues, but at the moment it seems I will have to simply have mine bored and sleeved.
Any comments on the quoted price and suggestions on sleeves, pistons and rings (a part from V2Rocket_aka944's offer).
Thank you all again.
Igor
12-06-2014, 10:44 AM
#41
Rennlist Member
With some of the good prices being quoted to sleeve and deck the block, maybe just use your current one and ship it to this Mike guy? Or even see if there's a cheap block in his region that someone could drop off to him saving you one of the shipping costs. Then you would have some options of what piston size to run with. Sounds like he could assemble you a really nice short or long block for not a lot of money. Worth talking to him I'd say.
but I do know that he's done sleeved 944 motors recently
btw, had another local guy do all the crank work. Fully lightened the S2 crank. That was pretty cheap too. ~$150
Last edited by gpr8er; 12-06-2014 at 11:35 AM.
12-06-2014, 07:53 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Just spoke to my engine builder about honing our block and he made some interesting points.
In a nutshell he said that there are two types of honing he typically sees. Street engine and race engine. Said ideally the honer should have a bespoke deckplate to torque down onto the block to create similar torque that it will be under when the head is on. The problem with not doing this is that it can create out of round or tapered sleeves. When the head is put back on you run into issues with the rings not bedding properly or cutting up the bores. Another thing he mentioned is that it's important not to run too much heat with the stones and paste. You want to keep the heat out of the process as much as possible. We are now looking into making a deckplate for the honing down here.
In a nutshell he said that there are two types of honing he typically sees. Street engine and race engine. Said ideally the honer should have a bespoke deckplate to torque down onto the block to create similar torque that it will be under when the head is on. The problem with not doing this is that it can create out of round or tapered sleeves. When the head is put back on you run into issues with the rings not bedding properly or cutting up the bores. Another thing he mentioned is that it's important not to run too much heat with the stones and paste. You want to keep the heat out of the process as much as possible. We are now looking into making a deckplate for the honing down here.
12-06-2014, 08:57 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Surely it can't be to hard to just buy some oversize Mahles or wossners and get the block bored to match, it's no problem in Sydney Australia so it's just a matter of finding someone with experience, it is not an uncommon procedure to bore our blocks.
12-06-2014, 10:11 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
Deck Plate / 944
Just spoke to my engine builder about honing our block and he made some interesting points.
In a nutshell he said that there are two types of honing he typically sees. Street engine and race engine. Said ideally the honer should have a bespoke deckplate to torque down onto the block to create similar torque that it will be under when the head is on. The problem with not doing this is that it can create out of round or tapered sleeves. When the head is put back on you run into issues with the rings not bedding properly or cutting up the bores. Another thing he mentioned is that it's important not to run too much heat with the stones and paste. You want to keep the heat out of the process as much as possible. We are now looking into making a deckplate for the honing down here.
In a nutshell he said that there are two types of honing he typically sees. Street engine and race engine. Said ideally the honer should have a bespoke deckplate to torque down onto the block to create similar torque that it will be under when the head is on. The problem with not doing this is that it can create out of round or tapered sleeves. When the head is put back on you run into issues with the rings not bedding properly or cutting up the bores. Another thing he mentioned is that it's important not to run too much heat with the stones and paste. You want to keep the heat out of the process as much as possible. We are now looking into making a deckplate for the honing down here.
Last edited by michaelmount123; 12-06-2014 at 10:13 PM. Reason: clarification
12-06-2014, 10:21 PM
#45
Race Car
I doubt thèyre gonna be able to grind the crank for that. It has tobe done slowly. Lmk, if they can, bc I'll send a few down there. Not holding my breath.