Right. I am sitting in a hotel room in Dubai for the 1000th time this year it seems, bored out of my brain..... so I am creating this topic in the hope that your creative responses will at least keep me entertained over the next few days until I can spend 16 hours in a tin tube and go home again.

What with work travel and other realities of life going on I haven't spent time in my car for over a year now which is sitting in my shed back in Oz minus the supercharged engine which was recently removed and sold to a man who wants to become yet another 4 cylinder thorn in the side if the 911 crowd in the NSW Porsche Club, along with Patrick and Sean and the rest.

So imagine for a moment you have a budget of about $20,000 which you can spend all on parts and machining because you can do your own engine assembly and you have decided for some crazy reason to build an engine capable of being competitive in the Australian Sports Sedan category. You can use any production based engine but you are limited to either 3.5 litres turbocharged or 6 litres naturally aspirated. And you have a rev limit of 8000rpm.

Before everyone shouts 944 Turbo or LS motor, you need to know that most of the competitive cars are using rebuilt NASCAR SB2.2 small block chev engines. Have you seen the power outputs of those things??? Here is a dyno screen of an engine that can be bought fully rebuilt for $18,000.



Even limited to 8000 rpm you are talking over 800fwhp and 550ft/lb from a 358 cube naturally aspirated engine... with a carburetor! Try building a 6.0 litre LS NA motor and make that type of power. I have been doing that research and while it may be within the realms of possibiilty... maybe.... to do it under $20 Grand is not. The SB heads are canted valve, massive flow and ex NASCAR parts are cheap as chips. Very hard to compete with that in terms of bang for your buck. However, I am not yet convinced I want a 600lb lump of iron in my car, even allowing for cutting the firewall, shortening the torque tube and setting it back 6-8 inches. I don't have TonyGs level of space frame development to be able to achieve the minimum weight which is 2480lbs with driver, unless I use a lighter motor.

So, we need 700+ reliable horsepower for $20K in engine parts and we can use any production engine up to 3.5 turbocharged or 6.0 NA. What's it going to be??

Options I have considered so far:

1. Ex NASCAR engine...heavy as mentioned and I hate to be a crowd follower.
2. LS engine....too expensive as far as I can see to achieve that power.
3. 20B rotary turbo - can't argue with that, with 700hp it won last year's series trumping the NASCAR V8s.
3. Toyota 2GR-FE twin turbo - stout V6 proven in competition, nice and light and short so set back in the car would be nicely placed.
4. Destroked Toyota 1UZFE to 3.5 litres and twin turbo....only so I could say I have solved the eternal V8 vs Turbo debate!
5. 944 turbo - nope sorry, maybe for twice or three times my budget and even then I doubt the reliability.

Other options? Use your imagination and let me hear them.....!

 

4v 4.6 Ford modular motor, custom crank destroked to 68mm = 3.475L, use aftermarket off-the-shelf 5.4L conrods (gives rod/stroke ratio of nearly 2.5:1) and pistons with pin moved down a few mm, with a turbo or two, you will never break it.

hope your engine bay is 28"+ wide though.

 

Classic Audi 20v I5 or new VW/Audi 20v I5

 

OK, good start! Engine bay can be cut to fit but ideally I want to move the engine back through the firewall so narrow is better.


Hmmm... owned a turbo quattro previously. If I am going to suffer a turbo car again I want to start with the maximum of 3.5 litres.

 

if your bench-racer chassis is a 944 tub then that motor does fit into the bay, with a finger or two's width on either side.

BTW, that motor will run at 8000 rpm without much of a problem.

 

How about a BMW e46 M3 engine? 800whp would be a walk in the park. Lots of people with more than 1000whp in scandinavia

 

turbo a cayenne V6 engine Probably breaks the bank but worth a try.

 

2JZ

 

3.2L VR6 VW twin turbo?

A RB26DETT from a Nissan might get you there also.
This guy has over 700whp to his Z car.
http://www.rolston.me/NewSite/Z-car.html

 

Those Z's are gorgeous! Always had a soft spot having owned four of them, two with V8s.

Back to topic:

The straight 6 options have merit providing the engines are pulled back far enough in the chassis. They are strong, sound great and give you room either side for plumbing. I did consider the BMW & 2JZ, but it's hard to beat the compactness of a 60 degree V6 as far as moving weight rearward. Porsche V6 is too expensive however..

I'm surprised no one has jumped in to try and prove me wrong about an LS motor...!

Seems like there are only two choices at this power level, SBC or turbo something. If it has to be turbo then it has to also lend itself to torque like this:



Not like this:



Twin turbos make that easier, so the V motors are ahead for easier plumbing.

 

3.5 litre = Nissan VQ35DE+TT, whoops they never made it strong nough

Alternative might be the new 3.6 litre GM LF3 engine, if you could destroke it.

Or this? http://www.roushyatesparts.com/ford-...m-6007-35t.htm

Cheers,
Mike

 

what about the GM 3.8L or the newer 3.6 in the VE? get them to a 3.5L IICR parts are cheap.

 

That's an interesting motor, worth definitely more research regarding power potential...

 

That is interesting and a good out-of-the-box solution for someone who's goals are not as high as yours. I'd imagine you wouldn't have enough room in your $20k cap if you picked one up new for that price and wanted 700hp with a decent torque curve. Does the $20k include getting the engine in the car?

What do you think about the 2GR-FSE? Do you think the increase in power potential with the dual injectors is worth the complexity in tuning?

I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion about the 20b.

 

The only problem with the 2GR-FSE, like all these direct injection motors is figuring out the best way to control them. My car is setup for Motec but the standard ECU won't do it. The Motec M1 which can do it is too expensive. The 2GR-FE would be easier to setup. I understand the reason it has less power than the FSE stock is more to do with lower compression and less cam, the direct injection benefiting the FSE mainly in economy. There was a successful off-road racer in Australia who ran a TT 2GR-FE which made 800hp.

20k was for the engine only.

Yes, apparently no love for rotaries on here. But I am still more surprised that none of the LS crowd have made any comments! I would prefer a NA motor, but the options are slim...although I did see Pagani managed to get 800 hp out of a NA 6 litre Mercedes V12.. A bit more than 20K though!