james6speed

I am in the process of selecting parts for setting up my Bilstein threaded Firehawks. Are using helper springs something that is necessary on a street car? I have read that if you jack up 1 side at a time - the sway bar puts enough pressure on everything to keep the spring in place deeming them unnecessary unless you have a lift - then they will unseat?

Here is the link of what I am thinking about.

http://www.frsport.com/Swift-Coilove...m_p_62303.html

I am using thrust sheets regardless to deal with any noise, any suggestions? I would rather not run them if I don't have to but am hesistant pending feedback.

Thanks,

James

Oddjob

[EDIT] - are you asking about front or rear?

Your link is showing a 60mm ID setup, I assume you would want 2.25" ID if a helper is needed.

Thrust sheets? Like a Torrington bearing?

james6speed

Just in the front and yes 2.25 inch equivalent. The rears don't have a spring and are telescopic.

The plates are these.

http://www.frsport.com/Swift-Spring-...-_p_62410.html



Thanks

james6speed

I just read on Pelican the stock Bilstein perch will accept both 2.25 and 2.5 diameter springs. Is this correct??? So much easier for me to use the 2.50 inch ones.

Dougs951S

In a word, no. Just ziptie the springs to the top hats and you wont have to worry about them unseating. If your hats don't have holes just drill a small hole on each side. Even if you didnt do this and they did unseat, they will seat themselves as soon as you move the car. The only thing you might hear in that case is a "springing metal on metal sound as the springs self center.

james6speed

So I am finding conflicting information. Some say the Bilstein Cup lower perches accomodate BOTH 2.25 and 2.50 springs, but others have stated you need to replace the lower perch with a 2.50 inch one if you are going with those springs?

I need some feedback.

Oddjob

With the higher spring rates, the springs will for sure unseat from the upper hats when the suspension is at full droop. Its not a big problem, you just need to make sure they reseat properly when you lower the car. Normally they will seat on their own. Occasionally, they might catch on the perch lip, then pop into place once the car is down and moved.

There are two types of spring top hats - fixed and floating. The fixed type are pinched between the strut rod and the top strut mount (shown below). They do not move with the spring. The floating type slide on the strut rod and move w/ the spring. Only the floating type are made to be zip or wire tied to the spring. Cant do that w/ the fixed type.

You need to use the proper perch size for the spring size. I am not aware of any readily avaible 2.5" lower perches for bilstein struts, but someone probably makes/made some at some point. Typically bilsteins always come w/ and use 2.25" lower perches and springs.

james6speed

I thought that was the case with the perch. I did find these adapters from Eibach

http://performance-suspension.eibach.../perch_adapter

I have not seen anyone that has used them though.

RajDatta

Curious what you ended up doing. I have the same dilemma and need to figure out if I get 2.25id springs or get a lower adapter to run 2.5id springs.

james6speed

I ended up running 60mm springs (2.25"). they are 9" tall. I use helper springs that compress to add an inch more height. h&r is the only one that makes taller springs in 2.25" at high spring rates (400#).

james6speed

Here is what I used for my set up(see below pic). I bought the front hardware from FRSport in SoCal. They are awesome at service, and had everything in a week. I went with the original top mounts and used the Lindsey top hats that are made specifically for that application. If you’re not tracking your car on the regular, then camber plates are a complete waste IMO. I like the ride quality that my car now has. I would even say that it bumps LESS than the original worn out M474.

As you can see the above spring rate equates to 392lbs. in the front. Not exactly what you would expect for such a soft ride… then again that is the beauty of Swift Springs IMO. With the above setup compressed, is essentially close to a 10” spring. One of the problems that I read about when people install the Bilstein Cup suspensions, is concern over ride height.

For the record, I am running the softer rate "Firehawk" version in the front (380/150) or what H&R calls their RSS Coilover, the ClubSport version which is the same thing. The problem I saw when looking at springs was that for the higher rate stuff (400lb. etc.) the taller springs in Eibach and Hypercoil are not available. I believe you can order H&R springs in 60mm 400lb. in a 10” version if you so choose.

For my application, I was leary that I wasn’t going to have enough ride height. When I installed the units, I did so at full height, and it was too high in the front. It was actually higher than the original setup. I ultimately decided on an 1 1/2'” from top for height, and then adjusted the sides to get them at even height.

As you can see, the car sits very level. Not too low, and even front to rear. Car handles like it’s nobody’s business with the Weltmeister sways as well. Hope that helps. Here are some pics.

james6speed

Also, for further reference if anyone would like to bypass using a helper spring and wants a taller 2.25 spring with increased lbs. (400lb. + etc.) here is the chart from H&R springs with respective part numbers associated with their 60mm springs.

250mm = 9.84in.

300mm = 11.81in.

james6speed

CORRECTION! Eibach does have these taller 2.25"(60m) as well. Don't want you all to be mis-informed.

They actually have them up to 350mm tall, which I don't know anyone that would need those for our application.

Oddjob

Be aware that 60mm (2.36") springs/perches are not the same as 2.25". They are not compatible. Most springs and perches in the US are 2.25", not 60mm (metric/euro applications).

I ended up w/ some 60mm perches and 2.25" springs will not fit on them. A 60mm spring will fit on a 2.25" perch, but there will be a bit more slop than you want.

james6speed

Thanks for that info oddjob. So, I assume the the Bilstein Cup suspension comes with the 60mm ones or the 2.25" perches? I used 60mm springs.