Rogue_Ant

Rob, since you seem to be asking for a formal discussion; you have the process out of order here...

You made the assertion that Holset's are not suited for use in gasoline applications because they are Diesel turbos. As such the burden of proof (so to speak) is on you. You have only stated your position, not provided any confirming evidence. Prove, or attempt to prove that Holset's are ill suited for gas-use, and then ask for a rebuttal.

As it stands your implication is a logical fallacy (or at least incomplete):
P = Holset is only for Diesel engines only.
Q = Holset is not good for Gasoline engines.

Implication table:
P :: Q :: P -> Q
---------------------
T :: T :: T
T :: F :: F
F :: T :: T
F :: F :: T

So, you need to prove that Holsets are both designed for Diesel only (conditional P), and that Holset is not good for Gasoline use (conditional Q).
I suppose that you could simply prove that Holsets are not good for gas cars, and that would be enough to prove that their are better options for our cars... That, however, does not prove your initial postulation of the turbo being designed for Diesel being the issue.

blown 944

How much you want to wager?

I gotta make it worth the drive.

I'm thinking a minimum of 2000 winner take all.

My POS is ready now. I don't need any time to change anything.

I've never road raced but I'm down.


How about we make it even more interesting and throw in an extra 1000. For a drag race and another 1000 for a roll on from 60 mph.

If either one of us sweeps all events the loser has to pony up another 1000.

I don't want to waste my time or $$

67King

Sid, you don't want to go there. I understand your frustration, but that is ALL about the driver. I could probably take you in an NA if you've never driven a road course.

pole position

^ LOl, you are such a tool.......you run what you brung and only fools race for "fun" or in your case professional internet debaters.

pole position

I already knew that this would be your answer, heard it countless times , for future reference, put up or shut up.

blown 944

While it sounds fun and all...

First it will cost a bit to drive that far.
Secondly, it would obviously cost me quite a bit of time off work. I have to take that into consideration.
Third, I'm not gonna waste my vacation to do this.

I don't mind coming down but I am realistic. It'll cost me at least 2-3g's for the drive and a week off work. In reality, I'll be exposing myself for at least 7grand if it doesn't go my way. Not exactly chump change.


Or another option.... maybe you can do a 1/4 mile and then a standing mile (there has to be one close, I'm going to one about 400 miles away in Nebraska)

I don't know of another measurement that can be done in separate areas...

blown 944

I looked at the course, it's a pretty simple design.

I don't doubt that driver ability plays a huge part in it still.

I'm still game.

Reimu

Alright so how are these ***** measuring contests supposed to help the holset debate...

An LS1 I assume is stock vs one of the fastest 951s on the board, I mean we know how it'll end.
And if its on a roadcourse it could end particularly badly.

blown 944

I don't know really, but I just know my car runs good, the turbo has been the most dependable I've used , so I just can't let all these negative comments go.

I have now over 20k miles on this turbo and 15 on this engine. IMO its proven to be durable, reliable and by some people's measurements, fairly powerful.

It may not seem like a personal attack, but when you add all the past comments regarding LS superiority, the comments regarding how the Holset turbo is not a good performer (well known on here that it is what i use), the constant idea that somehow I have less stress on my parts due to where I live, that this thread has my name in the title.... Well eventually I'm gonna get fed up.

I personally don't care what others do with their cars, but I don't go around telling that they made a poor choice either.

333pg333

Good post but like any, there always seems to be at least 17 sides to the story.

The concept that we all band together and celebrate the 944 chassis is great but to present the 'Swappers' sheepishly joining the threads with cap in hand trying to immerse themselves silently and respectfully is a bit of a stretch. On the contrary, many of us were aware that the V8 is indeed a good idea and to be honest some probably regret not doing it earlier having spent good money after bad for many years. However many of you guys have stormed into threads waving your V8 carrying cards as a measure of superiority. Or at least that's the impression I've got. I don't really care if someone has a 2.5, 3L, i5, V6/8 in their car. So long as they're happy, that's all that matters. From what I've seen it was never the i4'ers jumping into the V8 threads, but visa versa...ad infinitum at various stages. Lastly, for you to come on and try and present yourself as a peace loving guy who is constantly belittled by Sid and others is just a bit rich. Your eye rolling, short and abrupt responses betray you as passive aggressive and superior at times. It's a shame as I'm sure you have plenty to add to this forum. If I'm out of line, then my apologies. Just the vibe that I've picked up. I hope I'm wrong and have misread you. I agree that we all should feel comfortable in here and be able to benefit, contribute...and have a joke as well. It's just a forum after all.

67King

Rob, you may recall that I'm the only person in here who has posted anything that supports what you posted. That said, the sentence above is a perfect example of why you are getting into so many arguments. You have a perspective, and you seem to have a matter of fact mentality that your perspecitve is always the only logical one. That makes you come across as a know it all, and not just in this thread.

There's an expression that, quite frankly, you would do well to consider - there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Sid has been doing this a long time, and knows what he's talking about. That's why the title of the thread has his name in parentheses. That doesn't mean what works for him is going to be the best thing for everyone - as I stated, I've got a Holset cold side and a KKK hot side which won't have enough potential for him (I was going for ~350hp with the small engine with a faster response being a critical factor - he's going for a lot more power where response isn't nearly as important and he can run a 2-step to help spool off the line). Ultimately, I'd like a GTX3071 or 6, despite the issues people have had with Garretts on these cars. For that matter, you run an LS, and I'm looking at a 3,0L 16V (which I can build cheaper than an LS due to my business).

Anyway, like I said, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I took an HX30 into Nick expecting to put in on my XR, and got quite an education - as much about the airflow capabilities as anything, as the impeller was tiny compared to the stock T3, which was in direct contrast to the published maps. But the guy who builds turbos for a living, and had an 80's era F1 car torn apart sitting in his shop was someone I listened to. I had two engineering degrees to his none, as well, FWIW.

refresh951

Rob - I know you on a personal level and I can say for a fact you come across quite differently in person. You have helped me on many occasions and I am often impressed with your insight. I know one thing for sure, you have a lot to offer this forum and I hope you keep posting, albeit maybe in a less confrontational way.

333pg333

Cool. Sounds like we can all play in the same Sandpit then.

Incidentally I had an idea about an expressive keyboard that would make life a lot easier in this computerised world. Might have to follow that up one day.

Dougs951S

Bringing this back from the dead with a short update, this project is still a go and is now being unintentionally shuttled forward by my recent crossover failure. If I'm pulling it, I might as well pull the turbo too. A firm Called Turbo lab of America can machine my Stage 3 repro #8 hotside to take the HX35 turbine, price will be around 120 dollars. I wish I also had the funds to fab a true 3" KKK flanged downpipe at the same time, but alas it will be run with the stock DP for now. The goal for now is 425 rwhp on E85. I have a ported N/A head with 49mm intake valves ready to go if I don't get there with a stock head. Stay tuned folks.

Thom

425 rwhp with the stock downpipe? Are you dreaming?