I was watching a documentary on the R35 GTR and while they're taking it around the track the race driver said "the GTR weighs around 1800kgs, which the weight helps it handle like it does, only amateurs say light weight cars are better"

So he's saying all the track nuts here are amateurs because they lighten their cars and not add bags of bricks to help it grip?

When he said that i was thinking what the F is he talking about. If you stripped the car 400 kgs lighter and added better downforce, I'm sure it'll go around a track quicker?

Someone please give me some insight why heaver would be better?

 

The answer is simple. You have to consider the source, he was being paid to test drive a heavy car. Had he been in a light car he would have said the opposite. The source was biased.

 

From what I understand, it is actually easier to learn handling dynamics in a heavier car because you can feel the weight shifting much more obviously. That way, it will be very obvious when you're nearly on the limit.

Weight is never a good thing, we don't see racers that try to add weight to their cars to "go faster". I believe downforce is basically "weight" when you need it.

4000 lbs. performance car? /Sigh

I'm amazed to see this becoming more and more commonplace where these cars are weighing in and around 2 tons.

 

Agreed, I call bull**** on whatever journalist said that.

 

It was total BS.

Light weight always wins, all other thing being equal.

Take a GT based class of racing where you have to have 10 lbs per hp for example. You can have a car that weights 1000lbs with 100HP or you have have a car that weighs 5000lbs with 500HP. Which one will be faster? The lighter one.

Why?

Because the heavier one has more mass to slow down at the end of the straight, so apples-to-apples, it will not brake as good. Also, more mass to slow down means reaching the limits of adhesion of the tire at a lower rate of deceleration. The light car wins.

Also, going around a corner..... the heavier car has more mass. This it generates more centrifugal force, apples-to-apples, at the same speed... which will result in the tire reaching it's limit of lateral adhesion (when it starts to slide) at a slower speed than the light car. The light car wins again.

The heavier car also generates more body movement, more nose dive than the lighter car.

The heavier car, while it has more power, has more mass to accelerate. So while the two cars have the same lb/hp and though theoretically accelerate the same, they do not in the case of coming out of a tight corner. This because, again, apples-to-apples, to accelerate the heavier car at the same rate as the lighter car, the heavier car needs to apply 5x more TQ the tire than does the lighter car, while also generating more centrifugal force in the corner.. so the driving tire is loaded on both axis a LOT more than that of the lighter car which will result in earlier wheel spin.

Not to mention that apples-to-apples... the heavier car will over heat the tires faster than the tires lighter car.

on and on......

Bottom line.... weight beats HP on the track, all other things being equal.



And yes... I understand that you have more weight to push down on the tire which means more grip. Still... the lighter car wins.



TonyG

 

Paulyy, was that a Japanese factory test driver? They're so biased with the GTR publicity. They're an impressive car no doubt but forget what he's saying. Has no bearing on our cars that's for sure.

 

Has this Expert informed Formula 1 that their drivers are amateurs

 

1800kg is one fat bento box

 

Look at the Time Attack World Battle in Australia

GTR not competitive because of weight even with monster Hp.
1000Lbs to much they say.

 

Colin Chapman would disagree but WTH did he know.

 

I'm not saying that that heavier is better.. 'cause it's not.. But Colin Chapman also said that if a car broke before the end of a race, it was too light, but if it made it past the finish line without breaking, it was too heavy... Now, I'm all for light cars, but I'd like it to last a little longer than one race..

 

This reminds me of the argument I had with the driver of a GTR, he was trying to tell me that you do not need better brakes to be fast in a track. He was white, so maybe the GTRness was wearing off on him through the seat and steering wheel.

 

Thankyou!

Tony, You pretty much said everything i was thinking..and coming from a track nut, i'm glad to hear it.

Patrick, the test driver was Jap, so i think you're right on this.

JFreeman, that GTR driver you had a convo with, the only info he knows about his car is what came in the glove box.
Anyone who says "i'm not quick enough for bigger brakes" "you don't need bigger brakes" have no frggen clue
Thats why the CGT, GT2rs & GT3rs have massive 6 pots at the front and rear.. and they're under 1.5 ton

 

It's sad that modern "sports" cars have ballooned to their current sizes; it sucks.

Of course the great thing about downforce is it's exactly that, a force (i.e. not mass)! Extra weight will give you more grip but unfortunately you need to be able to accelerate that mass in any given direction. The only negative to downforce is that it usually comes at the cost of increased drag.

 

As far as I have heard, the electronics on the R35 just won't do their magic if the car is not brutally thrown into corners, which suggests to me that they may be got to work more effectively the higher the weight of the car.

I suppose it takes a certain level of selflessness for a professional driver to adopt anti-instinctive habits to extract the most of this car. This is probably what this driver meant but obviously was not careful enough when he chose his words!