Lemming

Mine is still in my spare box, have yet to need to pull it out.

Steve113

Has Tony been racing with his? I wonder how these will hold up

Bri Bro

Ben, I will donate $10 to the cause of cutting one up to see whats inside the boots and if the shafts are solid.

Anyone else what to drop a dime for the cause???

V2Rocket

What does one of these VW axles weigh fully assembled?

lejams

I wanted to make a decision today on whether to pull the trigger on these, so I called EMPI and spoke with Bill Shaw, (Product Development Manager). He was very informative and certainly way over my head in most respects during our conversation. I’m an amature when it comes talking mechanical tech specs, but I try to learn before I undertake something.

The primary issue we discussed was regarding the full range of Maximum Angularity of different types of CV joints which is a fact in question here. According to Bill at EMPI, some of the information floating around on the web regarding this is wrong, (surprize). Numerous sites on the web selling CV axels reference to different types of CV joints and they list them as: Type 1 = 12 degrees, Type 2 = 17 degrees, Type 4 = 22 degrees, and 930 = 25 degrees.

Bill states there is no such thing as Type 1, Type 2, Type 4, or 930 with these limitations. The type of joint we have on the 944 is the same thing the VW’s use which is like the EMPI 90-6805 that robstah started this thread with. These are Cross Grooved Joints, and, all Cross Grooved Joints have a full range Maximum Angularity of 25 degrees. If you look at this guys site CV Joints 101, he shows pictures of the so called Types. But all of the types are the same except for sizes. Bill read out of the SAE book and verified that there are not different types of Cross Grooved Joints with different limited MA’s. The only difference between Cross Grooved Joints is size of the joint and length and thickness of the bar.

We also discussed other things like the Axel Bars. EMPI bars are solid, heat treated and are made in Anaheim CA. The joint parts are made in China at a facility which they own, and parts are forwarded to Anaheim for assembly on the bars. I have an 89 turbo and I measured my dissembled axel. The EMPI bar is 1-1/8” overall, and the original oem bar on my car is 1”. The length of the oem bar is 24-1/8”, and the EMPI 90-6805 is 24-1/4”. EMPI’s tolerance is within 1/8” so no problem with the 90-6805 on late 944's. Bill believes that EMPI’s high quality standards meet the oem bar standards on our cars. With the additional 1/8” thickness, maybe they are better. The only issues they see breaking any of their axles are side stepping, and hard launches on STI’s and such. But do that with any axel 6-8 times, you're likely to break something, an axle or something in the TA that’s more expensive. FWIW, I didn’t perceive Bill was trying to sell anything at all. He genuinely portrayed his confidence and information. He’s been there for 20yrs+.

I’m replacing the originals on my car @ 95,000mi. Only the driver’s side is really in dire need as you can see in the pic, but at this price both are getting done. I tend to agree with the theory I’ve read somewhere on RL that the driver’s side usually goes first probably because the exhaust heat being close to the driver side joints dries out the grease faster. I never did any maintenance on the CV’s except inspect the boots. Wouldn’t you know it, after I repeatedly hear some single clunks in first and second gear, I look to see the boot is split wide open next to the TA. Had I followed some sort of a service interval of like re-packing every 50,000mi, they would probably still be good.

I placed my order today at Parts Geek where robstah bought his. The pair was $127.65 incl. shipping. I’ll report in over time and let you know how they are doing.

arthropraxis

I noticed the VW Vanogen axle felt heavier than the original turbo axle that it replaced, didn't weigh it.

lejams

Thanks for bringing these up! I'm stoked that I'm getting new Cv's for this kind of money. Hopefully they'll time test themselves true. Bill said no reason we shouldn't see 100-150k miles out of them, which would be on par with the factory oem's.

I wouldn't count on EMPI revising anything towards the Porsche market. I asked him why in their cross referencing there were no Porsche's listed and he claimed it just wasn't part of their market. He talked like GLK/Lobro being one of the largest manufactures sort of owns the Porsche market. Good for us so the prices remain low.

lejams

Btw, from the information given, it looks like these may well measure up to original factory spec, but if your tracking with high power, than probably want to look into some of the chromolys.

mj951

If you have an accurate way of weighing these a comparision between the EMPI and an OE axel would be awesome. Thanks!

lejams

I don't really have any means of weighing aside from the bathroom scale. If I come across something more suitable, will do.

95ONE

This theory was debunked by myself and TMS and probably many others that immediately broke axles after being replaced with brand new units with fresh grease, boots, etc. Same Side - Drivers. It was when we stabilized the transmission from moving excessively side to side that stopped this. Proven to me with at least 10 launches at the drag strip with no breakage after the trans fix. So in my case and a few others, heat and wear were not the issue for broken cages on the drivers side. It was excessive movement of the trans axle that broke the cages. Axles were never broken, just he cages.

blown 944

agreed

V2Rocket

accurate enough for me, if you get a chance to do it. do it by itself and then (with you holding it - you not holding it) to see if theres any difference with your scale.

lejams

If you’re talking about failures related to drag racing and hard launches, we’re on different pages. Immediate breakage issues after new installs or rebuilds, or, drag racing and hard launches changes the context. Although you found something that is working for you, there are many factors that can come into play under these conditions that can cause problems with cages and axels. It’s truly amazingly you have not destroyed something inside the transaxle having removed a considerable buffer.

I was relating to failures that occur over normally extended periods of time and more typical driving. It was my intention that added heat from the exhaust could be a contributing factor, but it wasn’t to say it would be a singular cause to result. Regardless, your solution of added stabilization to the TA doesn’t really answer why the driver’s side seems to fail more often than the passenger side. It does say you are stopping a failure under a particular set of very extreme circumstances. But the question still remains as to why the ratio of failure isn’t more equally distributed to the passenger side whether it is drag racing, road racing or typical Porsche driving over extended periods.

In my case the issue appears to have started with a torn & separated dust boot along with a piece missing. This allowed dirt and dust contaminates to be absorbed by any grease that wasn’t expelled and the joint dried out and was compromised. I noticed that on both joints on the same axle bar, the grease was less congealed and thinner than it should be, leading me to think it had broken down over time with heat being a contributor, and or a normal break down in the elements.

95ONE

Sure it does. The transaxle always twists a certain way when under acceleration, and over time as the already loose tolerance trans mount wears, it allows more movement. This movement is always the same, twisting more and more as the mount wears, and binds the cage at angles it cant handle. This angle twists and moves laterally in a way that puts more stress on the drivers side. That is why the drivers side is more apt to break.