lee101315

Hey guys,

I am thinking about tracking my 86 944 turbo this spring. I have a good daily driver/autoX car (2000 boxster with a 996 engine) so its time.

Which classes are you guys running in? I have my engine out of the car presently, and several turbos laying around to install. Im totally confused, im not sure if I should leave the engine and turbo stock, or modify it. Gut the interior or not? Hopefully some of you guys with racing experience could help me out so I can get a good start in the right direction

Which clubs are you guys using? NASA, PCA, or SCCA?
Which classes are you running in? Are you limited by engine power or by modifications?
Thanks

TonyG

First off... do you have a race license? If not, then start in the PCA program. Go to your local chapter and look find their section on the website about obtaining a race license.

As far as racing goes...

If you're starting with a stock car or near stock car, stay away from any of the power-to-weight ratio classes (GT type classes). Those classes are for cars that have a lot of modifications and are for the most part only limited by their power to weight ratios.

You'll want to stick with more "conventional" car classes. The club you run with will be able to class your car based on the modifications.

TonyG

jerome951

Hey Lee,

I've been racing my TurboS in PCA's stock class for a few years. I can't comment much on the other sanctioning bodies as I haven't looked into them

PCA's stock class is probably the cheapest option, but even then isn't cheap. If you get out of stock class, the costs go up significantly if you want to be at the front.

Unfortunately the regular turbo puts you in a class w/ 968s and 911 SCs, and the turbos normally are not front runners. TurboS's run in a different class and can be competitive.

Besides budget, how frequently do you want to race at local tracks? W/ PCA, you can race 1x/yr at the Glen, Lime Rock, NJMP, and Summit Point as your closest tracks. Other bodies like Nasa and SCCA may offer more frequent races at tracks near you.

Steve113

Now NASA GTS-3 Northeast (pure power to weight) - down about 30hp from where I need to be but hopefully that will change before April. (might put in a Turbo S turbo). Bought the car 3 years ago and converted it to a race car like you. Always raced for other teams, this was my first race car that I owned in the 20 years of previous racing. I didn’t want your typical stripped down race car. I can tell you there is nothing like closing the windows on the car in the paddock at night. Or being able to electrically adjust my mirrors on the grid, carpet to put my helmet on etc. .Even with all the non racing amenities I left in the car still holds most of the track records in the classes it raced. If I took the stickers off besides the car sitting very low it looks 100% stock. It’s the little things in life and I love driving the car.

I been through all you are questioning . I live on the NNJ/NY border.Feel free to e-mail me Steve@katzinsurance .com

Charles A. Toupin

If you do your homework (i.e. verify what you really want, check for the costs - a true due diligence), maybe that you're better off buying an existing race car. That should be, if you buy the right one, much cheaper than to build from scratch. Sure, it's not as fun as building your own though.

I still own my PCA GT3-S 951, but don't race it as much now. I do prefer racing 944 Cup. These cars are based on PCA SP2 cars. Fields are thick. Whatever you choose, go where you'll find the most competition. This is where you'll get better. Like SM or 944 Cup...

c.

jerome951

Important note: run in a class that Steve is not participating in. He's tough to beat. ;-)

I'll also second what Charles suggested about buying instead of building. There are a bunch of well-built cars available due to the economy that you can buy for not much more than the price of an unmodified car itself. Figure you'll spend at least $10-12k for safety and suspension mods (plus time sorting) if you want to run any higher than mid-pack.

Steve113

Jerome its the car , but couldnt you have said" He's tough to beat but fare and races clean. ;-)



Lee- I think the key is to figure out an annual budget and then plan on going over by 100% another words double what you expect or can afford to spend on this wacky sport. The class that you should participate in will then be very apparent.

Charles A. Toupin

^^^^ hear hear...

I've seen so many great cars for sale at such ridiculous prices. It is not worth building IMHO. You can buy the 944 Cup National Champion car for 17K. What a steal.

c.

User 52121

Or go buy a Spec Miata.....

Charles A. Toupin

SM is a very nice place to race for sure. Fields are even bigger than 944 Cup. But it sometimes ends up in crash fest. Not always like that but chances are higher than most classes. Car count helps that figure...

You don't see that in 944 cup.

Just sayin'

c.

74goldtarga

Lee, is your car presently stock? What mods (if any) have already been done? If your car is stock and you plan to race I would agree with the others here. I built my car for PCA E stock but have never raced - suspension was about 8K all told (sways, A-arms, solid bushings, coil-overs, camber plates, professional lowering with re-index of torsion bars and alignment, corner balance), cage 4K, seats and harnesses 2K - I think those are the big costs as the engine can't be modded. It has been fun but I don't think I will ever do it again because I could have bought a car much more thoroughly prepped for about 15K - with a logbook/transponder etc.

67King

E-stock is 944 Turbos, S2's, and 911's. F-stock is Turbo S's, 968's, and maybe the 964? But the 968 is classed with teh Turbo S, not the regular Turbo.

I will be running SP3, assuming I get approved, starting in March. If I had to do it all over, again, I'd go with an SP2 car. I just slowly built mine up, but ended up going all in on the build after the car was driven on the street basically only once to get it down to Road Atlanta.

I went with SP3 because I just wanted to make the car more simple. Yes, you can remove the interiors, now, but I gutted a whole lot more wiring, the dash, the headlamps, and changed the air induction system. It wouldn't be too tough to get back to E, but as was stated, the Turbos are not that competitive. S2's and 911's dominate. Interestingly, the S2 can run wider wheels than the Turbo, because the M030 option on S2's had bigger wheels. Also, the SP3 field seems to be growing more and more every year, as the E class gets smaller.

Oddjob

To echo others: PCA has several options, from stock class, progressed stock class, SP3 and GT (likely GT3) for 951s. Read the rules on the stock class and modifications allowed for progressed stock class and compare to SP3, to see which would best fit your interest. GT is not a good place to start.

http://www.pca.org/portals/cr/2011_c..._rule_book.pdf

NASA is popular in some parts of the country. German Touring Series (GTS) classes are worth looking at.

Can consider building a car that is legal in both PCA and NASA. Compare the modification restrictions and safety equipment requirements between the two organizations. A setup that is legal for both groups will be somewhat of a compromise, but should still be able to be competitive in maybe something like PCA E/F or SP3 and NASA GTS2/3.

SCCA does not have a good racing class for a 944 turbo. Most likely would be classed in ITE which is a regional class, not national. ITE is basically a grouping that allows anything to run that does not fit in other classes (old ASA stock cars and old Trans-Am cars). So not really any way to be competitive.

Current discussion on the racing forum, might be worth a read:

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=15894

Things you will want to answer for yourself:

How competitive are you by nature? Will you want to win, or would you be happy just to participate running mid to back of the pack? It will take a well prepared car (i.e. $$), talent, and experience to podium finish in the popular classes in PCA or NASA. Know that going into it, otherwise it can be very frustrating.

What aspect of race competition is appealing? Driving only? Or is car preparation part of your interest? Defining that for yourself, and your budget, will dictate on how best to proceed w/ a track car - buying an existing car, or building your own from a current street car.

Oddjob

Here is the full list of PCA stock classifications:

E 81-83 911SC (Euro)
E 85-86 928S (5-speed)
E 85-86 928S (Automatic)
E 84-86 911 Carrera
E 84-86 911 Carrera (Turbo-look)
E 86-88 944 Turbo
E 87-88 944S (Club Sport/Firehawk)
E 87-89 911 Carrera
E 89-94 911 C4
E 89-91 944S2
E 90-94 911 C2/C4 (Turbo body)
E All 968
E 97-99 Boxster
E 00-04 Boxster
E All Panamera
E All Panamera4

F 70-71 916
F 72-73 2.7 Carrera-Touring
F 74-75 2.7 Carrera (MI)
F 75-77 930
F 84-86 911 Carrera (Euro)
F 84-86 911 Carrera (Euro Turbo-look)
F 87-89 911 Carrera (Euro)
F 87-89 911 Carrera (Club Sport)
F 87-91 928 S4
F 88-89 944 Turbo S
F 89-91 944 S2 Club Sport or Firehawk
F 90-94 911 C2 & RSA
F 90-91 928 GT
F 92-94 928 GTS
F All 968 Firehawk

67King

Thanks for the correction. I didn't realize only the Firehawks were F, as every one I've seen at the races has been in F!