I want to get started in club racing, which class are you guys running in?
12-21-2011, 02:50 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
First off... do you have a race license? If not, then start in the PCA program. Go to your local chapter and look find their section on the website about obtaining a race license.
As far as racing goes...
If you're starting with a stock car or near stock car, stay away from any of the power-to-weight ratio classes (GT type classes). Those classes are for cars that have a lot of modifications and are for the most part only limited by their power to weight ratios.
You'll want to stick with more "conventional" car classes. The club you run with will be able to class your car based on the modifications.
TonyG
As far as racing goes...
If you're starting with a stock car or near stock car, stay away from any of the power-to-weight ratio classes (GT type classes). Those classes are for cars that have a lot of modifications and are for the most part only limited by their power to weight ratios.
You'll want to stick with more "conventional" car classes. The club you run with will be able to class your car based on the modifications.
TonyG
Hey Lee,
I've been racing my TurboS in PCA's stock class for a few years. I can't comment much on the other sanctioning bodies as I haven't looked into them
PCA's stock class is probably the cheapest option, but even then isn't cheap. If you get out of stock class, the costs go up significantly if you want to be at the front.
Unfortunately the regular turbo puts you in a class w/ 968s and 911 SCs, and the turbos normally are not front runners. TurboS's run in a different class and can be competitive.
Besides budget, how frequently do you want to race at local tracks? W/ PCA, you can race 1x/yr at the Glen, Lime Rock, NJMP, and Summit Point as your closest tracks. Other bodies like Nasa and SCCA may offer more frequent races at tracks near you.
I've been racing my TurboS in PCA's stock class for a few years. I can't comment much on the other sanctioning bodies as I haven't looked into them
PCA's stock class is probably the cheapest option, but even then isn't cheap. If you get out of stock class, the costs go up significantly if you want to be at the front.
Unfortunately the regular turbo puts you in a class w/ 968s and 911 SCs, and the turbos normally are not front runners. TurboS's run in a different class and can be competitive.
Besides budget, how frequently do you want to race at local tracks? W/ PCA, you can race 1x/yr at the Glen, Lime Rock, NJMP, and Summit Point as your closest tracks. Other bodies like Nasa and SCCA may offer more frequent races at tracks near you.
Now NASA GTS-3 Northeast (pure power to weight) - down about 30hp from where I need to be but hopefully that will change before April. (might put in a Turbo S turbo). Bought the car 3 years ago and converted it to a race car like you. Always raced for other teams, this was my first race car that I owned in the 20 years of previous racing. I didn’t want your typical stripped down race car. I can tell you there is nothing like closing the windows on the car in the paddock at night. Or being able to electrically adjust my mirrors on the grid, carpet to put my helmet on etc. .Even with all the non racing amenities I left in the car still holds most of the track records in the classes it raced. If I took the stickers off besides the car sitting very low it looks 100% stock. It’s the little things in life and I love driving the car.
I been through all you are questioning . I live on the NNJ/NY border.Feel free to e-mail me Steve@katzinsurance .com
I been through all you are questioning . I live on the NNJ/NY border.Feel free to e-mail me Steve@katzinsurance .com
I thought about that as well, along with the E30 bmw and regular 944... My sister has a miata, and imagine its fun on the track...but I just love the 951.
Lee, is your car presently stock? What mods (if any) have already been done? If your car is stock and you plan to race I would agree with the others here. I built my car for PCA E stock but have never raced - suspension was about 8K all told (sways, A-arms, solid bushings, coil-overs, camber plates, professional lowering with re-index of torsion bars and alignment, corner balance), cage 4K, seats and harnesses 2K - I think those are the big costs as the engine can't be modded. It has been fun but I don't think I will ever do it again because I could have bought a car much more thoroughly prepped for about 15K - with a logbook/transponder etc.
To echo others: PCA has several options, from stock class, progressed stock class, SP3 and GT (likely GT3) for 951s. Read the rules on the stock class and modifications allowed for progressed stock class and compare to SP3, to see which would best fit your interest. GT is not a good place to start.
http://www.pca.org/portals/cr/2011_c..._rule_book.pdf
NASA is popular in some parts of the country. German Touring Series (GTS) classes are worth looking at.
Can consider building a car that is legal in both PCA and NASA. Compare the modification restrictions and safety equipment requirements between the two organizations. A setup that is legal for both groups will be somewhat of a compromise, but should still be able to be competitive in maybe something like PCA E/F or SP3 and NASA GTS2/3.
SCCA does not have a good racing class for a 944 turbo. Most likely would be classed in ITE which is a regional class, not national. ITE is basically a grouping that allows anything to run that does not fit in other classes (old ASA stock cars and old Trans-Am cars). So not really any way to be competitive.
Current discussion on the racing forum, might be worth a read:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=15894
Things you will want to answer for yourself:
How competitive are you by nature? Will you want to win, or would you be happy just to participate running mid to back of the pack? It will take a well prepared car (i.e. $$), talent, and experience to podium finish in the popular classes in PCA or NASA. Know that going into it, otherwise it can be very frustrating.
What aspect of race competition is appealing? Driving only? Or is car preparation part of your interest? Defining that for yourself, and your budget, will dictate on how best to proceed w/ a track car - buying an existing car, or building your own from a current street car.
http://www.pca.org/portals/cr/2011_c..._rule_book.pdf
NASA is popular in some parts of the country. German Touring Series (GTS) classes are worth looking at.
Can consider building a car that is legal in both PCA and NASA. Compare the modification restrictions and safety equipment requirements between the two organizations. A setup that is legal for both groups will be somewhat of a compromise, but should still be able to be competitive in maybe something like PCA E/F or SP3 and NASA GTS2/3.
SCCA does not have a good racing class for a 944 turbo. Most likely would be classed in ITE which is a regional class, not national. ITE is basically a grouping that allows anything to run that does not fit in other classes (old ASA stock cars and old Trans-Am cars). So not really any way to be competitive.
Current discussion on the racing forum, might be worth a read:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=15894
Things you will want to answer for yourself:
How competitive are you by nature? Will you want to win, or would you be happy just to participate running mid to back of the pack? It will take a well prepared car (i.e. $$), talent, and experience to podium finish in the popular classes in PCA or NASA. Know that going into it, otherwise it can be very frustrating.
What aspect of race competition is appealing? Driving only? Or is car preparation part of your interest? Defining that for yourself, and your budget, will dictate on how best to proceed w/ a track car - buying an existing car, or building your own from a current street car.
For me, both aspects are equally appealing, and ill be doing all of the work myself. So it looks like im going to be building my own car...
12-23-2011, 09:58 AM
#17
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First of all – my condolences on your decision…..its all going to go downhill from here! Give up your other hobbies, girl friends and suspend any IRA contributions – its time to go racing! (I’m kidding…a little)
First thing to understand is that you need to figure out why you want to go racing, that will help you sort out where you want to fit in. If the goal it to ‘win’ then do some research and find out which group/class is the least popular. If your goal is to compete with others then find out which class is most popular.
In the north east E stock is very popular and very competitive. I might add that the class name ‘stock’ is very misleading. Some of the stock class cars have more $ in the build than a GT class car. I have seen E stock cars with a $60k initial build cost (not including the car). To podium in E stock in the northeast requires money, skill, some more money and then some luck. A significant number of E stock racers run new Hoosiers every race….if its worth ½ a second then its worth the $1200 every time you go racing.
Important tip #1 – Stock Class does not mean Stock
On top of that you will have to deal with the other competitors that don’t seem to worry about the rules.
OK, I don’t want to sound like I am not a fan of stock classes – you just need to know what you are getting into. The SP classes are really starting to take of in the northeast – and they look like they are having fun! Its also a class that can be run with other race groups. That is important depending on where you live. If you only have one or two PCA events with in towing distance then building a PCA ‘Stock’ class racer will really limit how many races you can run. With a SP class car you can run NASA and PCA and still fit in to some other groups. (just as a note – SCCA just does not seem to like turbos!)
On the plus side – you will always find somebody to race with in stock classes. There are so many cars you will always have somebody to race against. If you goal is to enjoy competing then you can compete with somebody in the field. In my opinion a good race against somebody is always fun regardless of finishing place. I would rather have a great dice for 5th place than a 1st place because nobody else showed up for the race – Maybe that because I have been racing since the 80’s. I like the racing part – the trophies are nice but that’s not what I really enjoy now.
There is a lot of sense in buying an already built race car, you can quite a good deal these days. You do have to remember that they are for sale for a reason. Not many people quit racing because they are board of winning and driving a perfect car…..!
Important tip number 2 - In case you haven’t done it already – spend at least a season driving a lot of DE events in a car that is track capable. Learning to track drive comes before learning to race. These are two different skill sets that should not be learned simultaneously. I have seen many people jump into the deep end without the prerequisite driving skills – its not pretty and most quit before they get their act together.
Really knowing how to handle your track car at the limits (and even a little past the limit) is something you really need to do well before trying it with another car
First thing to understand is that you need to figure out why you want to go racing, that will help you sort out where you want to fit in. If the goal it to ‘win’ then do some research and find out which group/class is the least popular. If your goal is to compete with others then find out which class is most popular.
In the north east E stock is very popular and very competitive. I might add that the class name ‘stock’ is very misleading. Some of the stock class cars have more $ in the build than a GT class car. I have seen E stock cars with a $60k initial build cost (not including the car). To podium in E stock in the northeast requires money, skill, some more money and then some luck. A significant number of E stock racers run new Hoosiers every race….if its worth ½ a second then its worth the $1200 every time you go racing.
Important tip #1 – Stock Class does not mean Stock
On top of that you will have to deal with the other competitors that don’t seem to worry about the rules.
OK, I don’t want to sound like I am not a fan of stock classes – you just need to know what you are getting into. The SP classes are really starting to take of in the northeast – and they look like they are having fun! Its also a class that can be run with other race groups. That is important depending on where you live. If you only have one or two PCA events with in towing distance then building a PCA ‘Stock’ class racer will really limit how many races you can run. With a SP class car you can run NASA and PCA and still fit in to some other groups. (just as a note – SCCA just does not seem to like turbos!)
On the plus side – you will always find somebody to race with in stock classes. There are so many cars you will always have somebody to race against. If you goal is to enjoy competing then you can compete with somebody in the field. In my opinion a good race against somebody is always fun regardless of finishing place. I would rather have a great dice for 5th place than a 1st place because nobody else showed up for the race – Maybe that because I have been racing since the 80’s. I like the racing part – the trophies are nice but that’s not what I really enjoy now.
There is a lot of sense in buying an already built race car, you can quite a good deal these days. You do have to remember that they are for sale for a reason. Not many people quit racing because they are board of winning and driving a perfect car…..!
Important tip number 2 - In case you haven’t done it already – spend at least a season driving a lot of DE events in a car that is track capable. Learning to track drive comes before learning to race. These are two different skill sets that should not be learned simultaneously. I have seen many people jump into the deep end without the prerequisite driving skills – its not pretty and most quit before they get their act together.
Really knowing how to handle your track car at the limits (and even a little past the limit) is something you really need to do well before trying it with another car
