Eric_Oz_S2

Well you better tell Porsche to stop making their chassis stiffer with each new model - they must be doing it wrong.

ian

The turbo S was not setup for the track, it was set up soft for the street and is just a slight improvement over the M474 equipped cars that came before it (which are in turn just a slight improvement over the base turbos). The spring rates came up slightly, the konis got a little stiffer valving, and the sway bars got a bit bigger, but to say it was prepped for the track, now (to use your own word) that is just silly. As another poster pointed out, the weight that was added to the turbo S cars (compared to an 86 951) is rather considerable. Hard to get the exact weigh difference, but it would easily be north of a 150lbs, and each of those lbs would be working against you in your factory track prepped turbo S.

I would guess the suspension in the bus like 88 you drove was either completely worn out, and / or the alignment was completely off. These cars are very sensitive to suspension settings, and having an expert set them up is paramount.

911-32

Who knows where Dom1 is from? Not all the worldwide Turbo S cars are loaded with equipment - my Silver Rose has no sunroof and never had fancy stereo or airbags. Thats the way UK cars were specced. Apart from bigger front brakes, I can't think of anything significantly heavier on my car than an 86 Turbo.

I haven't driven mine on track but I have seen just how fast the transaxle cars can be when I am in my 911 track car. IMHO these cars can be respectably fast without much work at all. 20 years ago, these cars were fantastic club racing cars and the 944S2 is still very competitive in the classic and future classic competitions over in the uk.

Dom1

Its a Canadian car, no airbages, no cruise control or fancy stereo. If you read the articles about when the 89 when first came out the big complaint was how stiff the suspension was for the street and I agree. I owned a clean stock 87 and now a clean stock 89. To me they are very different. Porsche made the 89 or s into a great weekend track car. Damping and ride height are adjustable on an 89 and of course this needs to be taken advantage of for the full difference to be realized. The car needs to be lowered and set up and then the 87 feels like a bus.

Thom

I agree with Dom1, and I think the main reason for the different feel is in the M030 bushings.
My '90 which doesn't have M030 feels saggy in the same way as earlier cars. Even when I had the Moton on something felt missing.

TurboTommy

What is the difference between the MO30 bushings and the non-S bushings?

lart951

m030 bushings are race ready and the regular 951 bushings are for buses, lol. These guys don't know what they are talking about or they have been exceeding their daily doses of glaucoma medicine, or they probably drove some cars with real tired suspension, exhaust leaks etc.

Oddjob

Somewhat harder durometer rubber in a few of the bushings, like the control arms, castor blocks, upper strut mounts, and trailing arms. If you look at the part numbers, any of the M030 parts that have a 30 series suffix are the same as the motorsport/cup pieces.

Lart - how much more can you make parting a stock turbo S compared to a standard turbo w/ stock boge suspension and open diff trans?

lart951

2k to 2.5k

Scott H

Elephant Racing makes re-pro "Sport" bushings for most of the NLA M030 bushings at no extra cost over the regular bushings. I went with them since the car is more street oriented and I couldn't be happier.

Oddjob

Difference is in the front brakes, spindles/hubs, koni suspension, AOR trans, K26/8, a little more for the S DME/KLR and maybe the 10 speaker door panels? Anything else?

lart951

before it was like 3-4k difference i have been trying to sell a AOR for $ 1399.99 and i have not been able

Thom

Given your professional activity it's tempting to think that you might have been exposed to far too many crap cars in the last years.
May I recommend you try to drive a decent M030 one with limited mileage so that you figure out what we are talking about

333pg333

I don't think there is a huge difference. Having owned both and been in quite a few others. Sure the S or '89+ models have a bit more zip and some stiffening available, but they're not a hard edged track car by any means.

For the person that wanted to only compare stock v stock, modded v modded...well sure you can do that, or how much does a good S2000 or similar car cost? Spend the difference on a 951 and then you have a true comparison. Even without modern chassis stiffness and suspension the 951 will spank all of the cars mentioned so far on this thread. Maybe even the Viper...if you spend the difference $ remember.

Thom

I am not saying that fresh M030 bushings are stiff enough for proper track use, just saying that they make a significant (at least to me) difference over standard bushings on low mileage cars.