Konstantin

I would say a To4B is as good a sa good k27 from Powerhouse.
a To4E 57 make as much power at 0.9 bar as a good k27 at 1.1 bar.
spool up is abvout the same if you use a maf.
k27/8 without a MAF can be very laggy.
the to4E 57 was ok even without a MAF

Konstantin

jimbo1111

Sorry luke for that reply. It came in the heat of the moment.

But really your turbo looks to be a t04b and not an e. That maybe why it was easier to install. My housing was stamped with the inducer wheel part # thats how I know whats in there. Even though the housing on the e is larger the inducer wheels on the b are a little larger than the e's in most of there applications. So the flow must be in the same range.

BoostGuy951

I don't want to jump into this battle, but it seems like Luke's turbo is noticably smaller than the TO4E I just installed. Maybe its just the picture though. How did you get the coolant return pipe to fit over the housing without modifying it?

aka 951

I installed a TO4E on my first 951 (86) and it required making a special fitting for connecting the water pipe (which itself had to be bent) to the turbo and removing the throttle spring bracket under the intake manifold. If you're experienced, the TO4E install is not very hard, but it is certainly no bolt-in. Mine was even the smaller 46 trim variant. Jason at TEC beleived that the 46 trim was the largest that would fit without grinding the intake manifold. If the T04B is a better fit it might be a better option as there are plenty of T04Bs running around with 300-350 rwhp. On pump gas that is the practical limit for a daily driver. The lag on the TO4E, even with MAF, cat-pipe, and boost controller was significantly higher than a K26 with a boost controller so I don't think the differences between the TO4B and the TO4E in terms of lag really factors much in to the decision. I enjoyed the TO4E but I'd probably recommend against it if the TO4B would be an easier fit and perform similarly.

Luke

My outlet IS stamped .6, which is the a/r ratio of an E

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by JasonECW:
<strong>I keep hearing Luke scoff at the B, but could anybody give some real world differences between the B and E trims? Seems like everytime someone mentions that the B is close to equivocal to the E with less "fabrication" Luke tries to come over the top on them with a snort and a sneer,</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I"m sorry i came off like that... i'm not scoffin' the B, i just feel that the E housing is better suited for what Poeple want in a turbo updrage of the "garret" caliber.... ( and the money they are spending).

I have no expireicen w/ B's my self, But i spend alot of time around a group of guys that have WAY more expirience with B vs. E copmarisons than you could imagine....

Im working on getting some write up's from them.

I feel that the B would be better suited for a smaller disp. motor than a 2.5 8V. that was hoping for big #'s.

There's nothing wrong w/ a B, it will deffinately be a HUGE upgrade from a k26.

what I DONT want to happen is for potential turbo upgraders to read JIMBO saying that E"s are a PAIN in the **** to install and dont bother w/ them.... Because those people would be missing out on the very reason I love my car so much... my to4e

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by JJ951:
<strong>which one of these turbos is the sfr stage 2 comparable to? Is the sfr stage 2 easy enough for a DIY?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I guess htat the point is guy, anything CAN be DIY... it just depends on the "you" part.

Luke

you can't compare physical SIZE of the B vs. E

A/r is

AREA / RADIUS

So if you think about it... you can make an infinite number of E housing in all different sizes it's more of a "shape" deal because of that.

There is probably a good reason why Turbonetics lists a housing for each comp wheel, and each housing has it's own part # <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

sorry I come across as an ***. i'm still only 10% wuss though

David Floyd

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">So if you think about it... you can make an infinite number of E housing in all different sizes it's more of a "shape" deal because of that.

There is probably a good reason why Turbonetics lists a housing for each comp wheel, and each housing has it's own part # </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">If I get your point here, a TO4E housing with 60 trim like mine will be larger than a TO4E 50 trim ? <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

Luke

i dont see "demensions" for housings outside of A/r.

and in order for the a/r to remain a consistant .6... one woul have to assume that the physical demensions would change w/ the wheel ( since wheel induce/exducer rates change w/ trim)

Rob

O.K. I just got off the phone with a tech rep at turbonetics. He answered the following to my questions:

The TO4B and TO4E do NOT use the same wheels.

The O.D. of the "E" should measure 7.00" while the "B" should be 6.52".

The "B" housing is only available in a .6 A/r ratio, while the "E" is only available in a .5 A/r.

So Luke, It sounds to me like you have a "B" housing.

Rob

Luke

i'm on the phone w/ a tech. and both can use .6 a/r's

i"m stumped right now...

according to PT... i have to measure the inducer/exducer of the actual wheel to tell.

Both B's and E's can have 2.75" inlets ( like I have) but the E with a 2.75" is a .6....

Rob

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Luke:
<strong>i'm on the phone w/ a tech. and both can use .6 a/r's </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yes both can use .6 HOTSIDE, but according to the guy I talked to the compressor housings are only availible in the single A/r. The only way to determine which wheel you have is to actually measure it.

Rob

Edit: I guess you hadn't finished typing before I responded. What is the O.D. of your housing? The size difference makes sense if both have the same cross sectional area. But then what makes your housing different than a "B" other than the wheel you are running?

Luke

we were talking about comp housings specifcally
Sean and I bought from the same turner..... and we were both told E...

E, because I asked for it, then I was sent an E map

I"m sure you would know this turner

I wish he would respond cuz. All i have left ot do is measure inducer/exducer... try to match it up...

but this guy could prolly tell us if he konws the difference himself?

What makes a B a B is it's A/r that can't be altered. I was told on the phone that the inducer/exducer of the wheel itself has to be "matched" to the housing.

Luke

somebody w/ a B and a 2.75" inlet... post what your outlet is stamped.

Luke

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Rob:
<strong>
The "B" housing is only available in a .6 A/r ratio, while the "E" is only available in a .5 A/r.

Rob</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">ok, i'd like to know why the B is smaller, but has a "larger" a/r according to your guy?

Luke

<a href="http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cheapturbo/gart3to457tr1.html" target="_blank">http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cheapturbo/gart3to457tr1.html</a>

PROOF..... To4e a/r on the comp wheel is .6 The same that mine is stamped.

can anybody challenge this before I measure the comp wheel?

does anybody want to put any money down?

Look at this housing. it's IDENTICAL to mine... this is a to4e 50 trim

<a href="http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cheapturbo/gart3to450tr.html" target="_blank">Inbiased site with proof....</a>

(befre n/e body says that I run it )

<img src="http://store4.yimg.com/I/cheapturbo_1730_3251" alt=" - " />

this is an E SAME housing as mine. ( not hte same casting, but the a/r is identical)

.6 JUST like mine.

<a href="http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cheapturbo/gart0t4w70tu.html" target="_blank">http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cheapturbo/gart0t4w70tu.html</a>

This is a to4S

and this site also confirms that the "s" has an A/r of .7

so this means the .5 must be a to4B