Silverbullet951

I guess the viper is today's modern muscle car, while the corvette is becoming a more refined sports car. I'd buy a zo6 405 over a viper anyday.

Jerry

First of all the difference between quick and fast. Quick is 0-60, meaningless, and fast is top speed, meaningful. Second the true measure is which car can do ten to twenty laps around a road circuit with the best lap time. If my car is as good or a little slower and it's worth under $20K then which car is far superior?

Silverbullet951

I have to say. The 951 has a great amount of potential. My car is basically stock(except for the APE and the boost set at 15), and I have already burned an audi S4 and a highly modified rx7 twin turbo (MY Cousin). He's going to buy a new m3 with the smg transmission. My goal is to absolutely burn him and my uncles viper. I think I can do it.

Luke

You say you smoked a highly modded RX7? was it a 2nd or 3rd generation? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Ahmet

[quote]Originally posted by Silverbullet951:
<strong>..."a highly modified rx7 twin turbo"...</strong><hr></blockquote>

That would make it 3rd gen.
Ahmet

John Anderson

Rage,

Just curious, how much power are you making at twelve PSI? I built my 2.82 Liter and thought I was doing good at 415HP (at the wheels) and 515lbs TQ (at the wheels) at 18 PSI. Your killing 400+ monsters running just two pounds more boost than me!!!

YOU have the stock bottom end? 2.5 liter? With bolt ons? Sounds like you could beat me!! :-)

At the time of my dyno I was running the fllowing:

2.82 liter bored motor
stage three MAF kit
52lb injectors
2.5" exhaust
higher compression head
lightened crank
JE forged pistons
Pauter gun drilled rods
no balance shafts
no AC
no PS
lightened flywheel
18PSI boost
delta wastegate
greddy blowoff
T61 turbo
electronic boost controller
about 1500 miles on the motor
Ported and polished head
and a few other misc mods....

Sounds like your giving me a lesson in tuning here!

John
Anderson Motorworks Inc.
619 562 0180

rage2

[quote]Originally posted by John Anderson:
<strong>Just curious, how much power are you making at twelve PSI? I built my 2.82 Liter and thought I was doing good at 415HP (at the wheels) and 515lbs TQ (at the wheels) at 18 PSI. Your killing 400+ monsters running just two pounds more boost than me!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think you're reading the post wrong... I can't beat the Viper ACR at 12psi boost. At 16psi, we're even, at 20psi, I can beat him =). Don't forget, we're 500lbs lighter than a Viper... I did beat my cousin's 349hp SLK 32 AMG at 12psi. See the video <a href="http://www.virgeweb.com/rage2/fastcars/fastcars.wmv" target="_blank">here</a>. Ignore the first run, I was powershifting and getting a slipping clutch =).

[quote]Originally posted by John Anderson:
<strong>YOU have the stock bottom end? 2.5 liter? With bolt ons? Sounds like you could beat me!! :-)</strong><hr></blockquote>

Stock bottom end. Major mods are SDS/Extrudehone/HR Stage 3 Turbo. I haven't dyno'd since I fixed some leaks and tuned the fuel curve a bit more. On the dynojet I made 340hp and 404tq at the wheels at 4400rpm, 20psi at that point, but boost dropped significantly after that because of leaks/load issues. I since bought a Blitz Power Meter as an on-road dyno, and I hit 380hp (+/- 10hp) at 20psi, still with leak, but a bit better fuel curve. I've since fixed the leak, and will get a "perfect" fuel curve when I get some time to install my wideband O2 sensor/logger. It'll be interesting to see how much power I can make =). My goal is to eclipse the 400hp mark on a stock 2.5L bottom end (without blowing anything up).

[quote]Originally posted by John Anderson:
<strong>Sounds like your giving me a lesson in tuning here!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Haha I wish, I think you just misread my post =). I'll do a full dyno run after I get everything dialed in right. Wish me luck!

I will be rebuilding again this winter, big bore 2.82L project. I still have to buy that intercooler from you in the next month.

One question I do have for you, what fuel pressure do you run? I run 3 bar and I'm getting close to maxing out my 72# injectors. You're running 55# injectors, and making more power than me =).

Silverbullet951

hey guys, Whats the max psi I could run on the stock turbo, without hurting it? I set it at 14 psi. Is that too much?

Kool

[quote] And I even read a story about a global-warming protest that was staged in Chicago. They ended up canceling the rally because they said, 'It was too cold for people to be outside'... <hr></blockquote>

That is funny.

Danno

"One question I do have for you, what fuel pressure do you run? I run 3 bar and I'm getting close to maxing out my 72# injectors. You're running 55# injectors, and making more power than me =)."

I think John's up to a 96lb/hr injector now! Not to sound ricey, but that's phat!

You might want to implement the staged-injector function of your SDS unit. At a pre-determined XYZ-rpm the unit will cut the injector duty-cycle in half and turn on a second injector (for same cylinder). This will give you the same amount of fuel as before, but with plenty of duty-cycle left in reserve. Only issue is where to stick the additional fuel-rail. I was thinking about underneath the intake-manifold...

John Anderson

SilverBullet,

YOu can run as much boost as you want, the factor is the fuel...not the turbo breaking. The more boost you run, the more fuel you'll need. Its just as simple as strapping an AFPR to the rail and fattening the injectors..it gets to a point that your too rich down low and the car will not respond therefore you start to loose boost. You need to tune the fuel curve precisely to achieve the greatest performance from the turbo and increased boost.

John
Anderson Motorworks Inc.
619 562 0180

Silverbullet951

John, So your saying I can run 18 psi of boost without hurting the turbo? I just need more fuel? Doesn't sound realistic. I think the turbo can take only so much boost until it starts wearing down. Am I wrong here?

Luke

More pressure equals more heat. So there has to be a happy medium in there somewhere. I know a guy that runs 23lbs all day in his 26/6 944. I think it's pretty darn safe in a watercooled turbo

Danno

Yeah, 18psi won't hurt the turbo. What happens at that boost level is you'll probably end up in a more inefficient range of the turbo's compressor map. That means the air will be heated even more than from normal compression. Thus the benefits you'll get from increasing boost is overshadowed by the need to reduce ignition advance to deal with knock & detonation.

toddk911

I thought I read somewhere that at 17psi or more, the stock turbo no longer produces hp. It just rolls off. Is this not true? If not, I will be sure to pick up wide fireing head gasket and turn the boost up a bit, as I am running about 15 now , thanks to a LBE. With 1psi being about 10hp, and can turn up boost about 2-3 psi, you do the math