m73m95

Nah, don't worry about the Ostrich. It's not needed for any of the MAF kits...In fact, it can't be used with any of the MAF kits, because they require their own specific chip.

The ostrich is only needed if you want to tune a stock (or near stock) setup yourself.

Partly true....

The MAFs also play a HUGE part in driveability. While the AFMs "work", they are 20+ year old technology. They rely on a friction contact to change voltage for the DME to read. It just isn't accurate. The friction between the barn door and the housing varies. The spring tension varies. Wear to the contact surface varies. And, since the AFM is the primary sensor the DME uses to determine fuel needs, these variances can affect AFRs drastically.

A MAF is MUCH more accurate than the old AFM. So, even if you're running a stock setup, and not looking for "every last bit" of power, a MAF setup will still turn your car into a much easier car to drive day to day. It brings the "stop light to stop light" driveability of a modern car, to our 20+ year old cars.

onspeed

The Ostrich / TunerPro can be used with the typical MAF kits since the MAF is just altering voltage to the DME, just like the AFM. Difference is that instead of having a barn door which needs to be opened, thus restricting air flow, the MAF is straight through, reading resistance in a wire which changes based on the amount of incoming air.

Rogue himself clarified in the DIY thread that it's compatible with MAF, you just need to make the appropriate conversions and the "auto tune" feature won't be as exact.

m73m95

Right. You CAN use the ostrich for a MAF setup....

The Ostrich will do everything the EPROM will do, because that's what it is... an EPROM emulator. The key to this is, you need someone to give you their tune to use in your ostrich. Good luck with that!

fast951

Ok! I agree with you about the accuracy of the MAF and all its advantages.
After all, we have been providing the TRUE MAF conversion for the 944/951 for many years now.

However if his AFM is functioning properly AND he is not "after last bit" of spool-up, performance or drivability, then the AFM will serve him fine. (Under these conditions he does not "need" a MAF for the K26).

fast951

You mean the MAF software is not open source???

m73m95

I edited my post to exclude your name.... I was using your company as an example that no one would give out their code for use in an ostrich. Not just you.


But your sarcasm is noted

onspeed

Point I was making is that with the Ostrich and TunerPro software, you can tune an AFM code to make it compatible with a MAF sensor. The same thing all other chips out there, with the exception of Vitesse, is doing. It won't be a true MAF code, but if you tune for 1 boost level, you should be able to eventually get a pretty good AFR/Timing across the board. Then you can also try different boost levels and just save different maps onto you hard drive. No need to be sending chips in to get them reburned. Not going to be 100% perfect obviously, but the price difference between getting 90% to 100% is huge. And the power difference? Probably negligible.

In my opinion.

piperporsche180944

I have a heavily modified 951, I tell you what, I would go with a Vitesse MAF if I had to do it again.

blown 944

Hmm I'm pretty sure he is not using the high impedance injectors to get around the batch fire issue. I am using siemens 95# injectors and my car idles perfectly, is very smooth throughout all rpms, utilizes 3d mapping including a lean burn cruise map, has overboost protection, etc....
Matter of fact I know the MAF's have been measured so the transfer function is dead on. I have used two completely different MAF's (cobra and lightning) without a piggyback at all and have perfect afrs.

I also know that it has been a lengthy process to get this far and it was done from the ground up re writing the code without sourcing any other vendors products.

I am very sure everyone will be very happy with the end product and price.

blown 944

People have been emulating ford MAF's for years. It is not that simple for dme to actually understand the maf transfer function. Hence the need to re write the code to understand it just like any other factory maf car does. Currently there are only two that can do that; vittesse and now rogue tuning.

Rogue_Ant

Slower reacting injectors exacerbate the problem with the stock DME software, they do not "get around it".

In fact, without the proper code changes, the high impedance injectors are nearly impossible to tune and will result in uncontrollable AFRs at low loads / idle.

As you mentioned, the proper way to handle large injectors is by changing the injection strategy from firing the injectors once every revolution, to once every two revolutions.

Re: AFMs, I've tested quite a few AFMs on my flowbench... The amount of variance is scary. I've attached an overlay of eight 951 AFMs; all came from running vehicles. Though it is harder to see at the lower airflows (due to graph scaling), on average the meters measured anywhere from 10%-30% different from each other! It amazes me that AFM cars run as well as they do, but as our AFMs get older and used more, they will only continue to lose accuracy - resulting in both improper AFR and timing.

Furthermore, the AFM is a definite restriction. With a proper MAF, I would expect a 951 to make at least ~5% more peak hp, and certainly even more under the curve.

Rogue_Ant

Connecting a MAF to the car isn't the problem... It is getting the DME to properly understand it. When the Bosch engineers programmed the DME, they used a set algorithm to define the curve of the AFM. This curve cannot be changed to match any MAF without first changing the algorithm.

TT @ Vitesse was the first, and until recently, the only to properly change the code. The Vitesse software / kit is top-notch, and set the bar very high - without a doubt has been the best option for anyone wanting to keep the stock DME.

It was this level of caliber that I've been working towards, and has taken a long time... But I'm just about ready - when I am I'll be sure to make an announcement.

Black51

Can anyone with experience with one chime in on SFR MAF's?

blown 944

John or Josh or ??
I am a little puzzled by this particular paragraph? Why would there be a problem utilizing different spooling turbos and the tune to go along with them? As I understand it the maf is reading airflow which is targeting a particular cell for the IDC and the map is reading pressure which is targeting cells in the timing map. Along with the tps you should be able to target the proper fueling and timing regardless of the turbo? This is an honest question..

Paulyy

I think i know what you're talking about. PM sent.