V2Rocket

as much as i love the awic and hope to use one on my car, i would suggest against using the awic on a road-racer. it would be excellent for a few laps but after a while the heat would build up in the water and you wouldnt have enough time to cool down the water properly...street car, definitely. road-racer...nah.

if you are interested though ill sell you the jag unit i have for $100, it might be too big for my application (my SC is alongside the block, not in front)

gt37vgt

ones capacity for shedding heat is exactly the same weather you use water or not ..
you duct X cfm of air through the front of your car and you can therefor shed Y kw's of heat depending on ambient temp... you just have a much more flexible system of heat exchangers you can put an extra cooler in anywhere with just 3/4 hose to and from.

Chris White

I just did a stand alone system on a very similar set up –a S2 with a 968 engine and Carls supercharger.
The super charger is a nice set up, you might find the stock idle system a little challenged by the set up. I had to do some interesting tuning to get it working well, there is still some positive pressure from the supercharger at idle.

How much boost are you going to run?

BTW – a stock 951 intercooler is actually a good product – much better than most of the ebay cheapies!

Jfrahm

I cured this problem totally by moving the MAF farther from the SC. Mine is located just after the air filter, under the front valance. I just put in a piece of 3" J tube in place of the MAF. I kicked around the idea of just dumping some of this air with a second recirculation valve dumped to atmo under very light or no throttle, but I when I moved the MAF the car suddenly just worked perfectly.

-Joel.

Lemming

Chris,

Carl suggested that I start with 5 PSI and go from there. Was there an IC on the car you did? As far as I know, all the kits to date are running without IC but they are all street cars (again this may have changed). I hope to get the IC this week, once I have it I can mock up several different options. I purchased a 951 IC on ebay a few months ago ($2.50 plus shipping ) and would like to be able to use it, but fitting it into the stock location is likely not an option. It could possibly be put low on the drivers side and ducted separately.

I may give you a call once I start setting up the SC. I do not currently have a stand alone system but knew full well going into this that it may be necessary.

Friends of mine own a speed shop and they suggested an AWIC but I don't really want to add the complexity (another pump that could fail during a race). I also considered water injection but again, more complexity.

Lastly, if the SC proves to be problematic for the race application with overheating and such, I can always pull it and put it on my 968 daily driver

gt37vgt

the Bosch electric water pump used to cool the turbo is used in several applications and is as reliable as a stone Axe. you could easily set a belt driven pump if you want..
Also davis craig electric water pumps are also a well proven and reliable..

Willard Bridgham 3

There are lots of problems with air/water IC units, the first of which is that there's not enough technical information on the provided link to know how or if it will work.

The second problem is a thermodynamic one and a water /air unit may not work at all in an air/air application or, if it does, it will work badly. Heat transfer of water is 100 to 1000 times that of air.

The third problem is again thermodynamic because air/water/air will require very large surface areas somewhere to dump the heat. The air/air unit will be smaller for the same btu.

The next problem is also thermodynamic. Cooling charge air temperature to engine water temperatures is not going to be a big help, especially at track conditions.

gt37vgt

"cooling charge air to engine water temperatures" did any one suggest engine coolant for the Inter cooler ?
I can't testify for sustained track use but can for a street application and any real data i have seen has always proven them far superior to air to air systems .
the inter-coolers ability to take charge heat is directly proportional to the mass of the inter cooler the coolant ads to this mass.
the cooling capacity of several liquid charge coolers is rated in kw s i have never seen any ratings on even the most expensive air to air cores..

2bridges

no bypass valve in system?

Without vacuum at idle I bet that is a pure joy with stock power brake booster. EEEK

DDP

This is what I did. Sorry it's the best picture I have right now. I cut the factory boxed cross support out and welded in a replacement tidier chromoly bar with built in IC mounts. I plan to work out ducting at a later date. This is a 4" thick, custom end tanked, bell cored, 3" inlet/outlet intercooler. 750 hp capable.

Jfrahm

I get vacuum at idle and the brakes work fine. The issue is the crapload of air that the SC pushes against the closed throttle plate, which then bypasses through a standard recirculation valve, then dumps back in kinda close to the MAF. All this turbulent air seemed to cause a bouncy idle and some MAF trouble codes on my setup until I moved the MAF. I have a newer design intake elbow that is supposed to mitigate the problem (my car came with a pre-production piece installed) but I have not tested it. Moving the MAF sorted it out, no further problems.

This setup is interesting, I do not really see boost at midrange RPMs but the car is clearly faster in the midrange, just better VI I suppose.

-Joel.

V2Rocket

using the engine cooling system would be a big mistake - cooling capacity of the IC would suffer, as would the engine. a separate water circuit is ideal, with a fairly large tank and a good flow rate. i'm going to make a water tank to fit under the pass fender of probably 4 gallons, along with a few hundred acres of heat exchangers at the front of the car.

Lemming

Wow, it looks like about 90% of your radiator is directly in line with the IC. Any cooling issues with that setup? How do you plan to duct?

Lemming

That's 33.4 lbs of weight that I do not want to add to my car

333pg333

Having a similar setup to that in DDP's pic I can say that I haven't seen any noticeable climb in temps due to the stacking. In fact of all the fmic guys around I haven't heard of any mitigating issues?