Link G4
05-10-2009, 11:55 PM
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05-11-2009, 12:02 AM
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Sounds good. Link had a start some years back with Danno. It never got a good start and there were all the issues of the interface with the speed.ref sensors (higher RPM problem) and it appeared to hard to tune. I am sure this system is light years ahead of the old system.
05-11-2009, 12:04 AM
#37
I asked Neil about theuse of the Storm instead of the Xtreme, etc. Here is his answers. I know this person and its not about the sales. Its about the service.
Simon,
I spoke to David yesterday a few times when he was helping his customer. I knew what was going on to some degree. David did a really good job and has the tuning well under control. My input is all about finding out how we can make the kit better. We have found a few things we need to do to make the application more painless, easy to fit and "start up" to be immediate. Yesterday we found I forgot to make mention the Subaru Coil is marked for the Subaru firing order, not the Porsche. My mistake here. A simple plug wire change and the engine fired right up.
There are so many other choices out there, I can understand why it is hard for some to decide what to do. I have listened to you and David over the years. The business of engines and EFI systems is so cynical , its no wonder customers are not so eager to jump in. It's because there have been and still are vendors out there only too eager to take money off these people and give nothing or poor service and product in return. I have seem this in the 944 world, and we have not been in it, that long. Look at all the BS surrounding Cylinder Head flow numbers for example. Something this simple should be a no brainer, but there are those out there that claim flow numbers impossible for what is offered. I feel real sorry for customers.
Please note that other companies offer EFI systems as well as Link. It's not fair to compare when the comparisions are used to self promote. I like to sell what we offer, not what others do not. I think the Link is well suited for the 944 application. Factory sensors can all be used, you can choose the type of Ignition used, and the control the Link has is equal to and the best available. I have looked at many of the other systems offered, and feel we can stand tall against any one of these.
David and I decided when we created this application for the 944, that we would offer a good system, as complete as possible and give the customer the confidence he or she needed. Hopefully as I understand from you and David, some are now seeing the benefits of EFI and that it is not a big deal to change over.
All sales are thro David and he will provide start up maps with every system. He will do most of the support, but my phone can ring too. I figure as more get this system, they will email one another maps to try etc. At some stage they will know more about tuning one of these engines than we do.
I have answered your questions below as best I can today. If you need more info etc, you just need to ask.
Nh
-----Original Message-----
From: m42racer@aol.com
To: neil@performancedevelopments.com; Pformdevs@aol.com
Sent: Sun, 10 May 2009 2:53 pm
Subject: Link G4 system on Porsche 944
Neil,
Hope you are relaxing over this weekend.
There has been some discussion on the web regarding the system that was installed and tuned on the 944 in Chicago. It seems it went very well. I expect Dave did the support.
Anyways, I have some questions that have come up on the forums.
1. Should we use the Storm or the Xtreme. What are your thoughts.
In my opinion, the Storm will do everything a 944 Turbo engine could need. The Xtreme will control Knock and has P&H drivers allowing low Impedance Injectors used, but the extra expense does not warrant the benefits. If engines are mapped correctly, Knock control is not required. The simple Knock Link for $ 150.00 will show if the engine is detonating. I have discussed with David if we should include this in the standard kit. I think we may. Even with the self tuning both these ECU's offer, proper tuning where Knock and AFR's are monitored has to be done. This applys to any system used. As for driving the low Impedance Injectors in a saturated manner, I still feel these engines run just fine this way. The Link offers the ability to control the "deadtime" so any change in AFR due to the time required to drive open the Injector can be adjusted to control the final AFR. It still comes down to how you control the Injectors, even with P&H drivers. Some systems that have this control, do a poor job at best driving these Injectors. We have done back to back tests on the same engine using the Storm with saturated Injectors and low Impedance Injectors with ballasts and the results were so close to call it made little or no difference. We have done the same tests on the same engine with the Xtreme driving low Impedance Injectors with the P&H control and the engine made the same HP and used the same amount of fuel. So it still is all about how you control the Injectors. Do not buy a system that has P&H drivers just because the sales literature tells you it has this ability. As I said, some of these other systems do a really poor job of controlling even with this ability. The 944 engine is typically going to be run in group fuel, so why spend the extra to get nothing. I'm happy to supply the Xtreme if some want this, but in my opinion it's a waste of money. Please let them know that the way we have done the wiring for both of these wire in ECU's, the Strom requires only the A harness and the Xtreme needs A & B. The A wiring is exactly the same for both ECU's so upgrading, changes nothing in the wring. To use the Xtreme you add only the B harness. In the case of the 944, this would add only the Knock control. The Xtreme has huge amounts of ins and outs that will never be used in a 944 appplication. It really is a waste of money and an over kill. That been said, the Xtreme is still better value than some other systems.
2. What does the Xtreme offer over the Storm if used.
Not alot. As I have stated above, Knock control and P&H drivers. Good Ignition tuning and deadtime control over the saturated Injectors will give the same result. Use the Knock Link and you will have warning of detonation.
3. Ignition control and Knock seem to be the big issue that some have. What are your opinions on this.
I think I have covered this above.
4. How does the Storm control low Impedance Injectors compared to other systems and is this a issue.
Study the deadtime control in the software and you will understand why it is not a big deal to use saturated drivers. When looking at the software, remember to point your mouse at the menu label and right click on the heading. The tutorial will appear to tell you what the control etc is about.
Email me back if you get the chance and I will forward the info onto the forum.
Thanks for the email. It gave me a chance to get away from the wifes chores.
I'll talk to you his week. I'm home for the weekend and will be travelling all next week.
Simon
Simon,
I spoke to David yesterday a few times when he was helping his customer. I knew what was going on to some degree. David did a really good job and has the tuning well under control. My input is all about finding out how we can make the kit better. We have found a few things we need to do to make the application more painless, easy to fit and "start up" to be immediate. Yesterday we found I forgot to make mention the Subaru Coil is marked for the Subaru firing order, not the Porsche. My mistake here. A simple plug wire change and the engine fired right up.
There are so many other choices out there, I can understand why it is hard for some to decide what to do. I have listened to you and David over the years. The business of engines and EFI systems is so cynical , its no wonder customers are not so eager to jump in. It's because there have been and still are vendors out there only too eager to take money off these people and give nothing or poor service and product in return. I have seem this in the 944 world, and we have not been in it, that long. Look at all the BS surrounding Cylinder Head flow numbers for example. Something this simple should be a no brainer, but there are those out there that claim flow numbers impossible for what is offered. I feel real sorry for customers.
Please note that other companies offer EFI systems as well as Link. It's not fair to compare when the comparisions are used to self promote. I like to sell what we offer, not what others do not. I think the Link is well suited for the 944 application. Factory sensors can all be used, you can choose the type of Ignition used, and the control the Link has is equal to and the best available. I have looked at many of the other systems offered, and feel we can stand tall against any one of these.
David and I decided when we created this application for the 944, that we would offer a good system, as complete as possible and give the customer the confidence he or she needed. Hopefully as I understand from you and David, some are now seeing the benefits of EFI and that it is not a big deal to change over.
All sales are thro David and he will provide start up maps with every system. He will do most of the support, but my phone can ring too. I figure as more get this system, they will email one another maps to try etc. At some stage they will know more about tuning one of these engines than we do.
I have answered your questions below as best I can today. If you need more info etc, you just need to ask.
Nh
-----Original Message-----
From: m42racer@aol.com
To: neil@performancedevelopments.com; Pformdevs@aol.com
Sent: Sun, 10 May 2009 2:53 pm
Subject: Link G4 system on Porsche 944
Neil,
Hope you are relaxing over this weekend.
There has been some discussion on the web regarding the system that was installed and tuned on the 944 in Chicago. It seems it went very well. I expect Dave did the support.
Anyways, I have some questions that have come up on the forums.
1. Should we use the Storm or the Xtreme. What are your thoughts.
In my opinion, the Storm will do everything a 944 Turbo engine could need. The Xtreme will control Knock and has P&H drivers allowing low Impedance Injectors used, but the extra expense does not warrant the benefits. If engines are mapped correctly, Knock control is not required. The simple Knock Link for $ 150.00 will show if the engine is detonating. I have discussed with David if we should include this in the standard kit. I think we may. Even with the self tuning both these ECU's offer, proper tuning where Knock and AFR's are monitored has to be done. This applys to any system used. As for driving the low Impedance Injectors in a saturated manner, I still feel these engines run just fine this way. The Link offers the ability to control the "deadtime" so any change in AFR due to the time required to drive open the Injector can be adjusted to control the final AFR. It still comes down to how you control the Injectors, even with P&H drivers. Some systems that have this control, do a poor job at best driving these Injectors. We have done back to back tests on the same engine using the Storm with saturated Injectors and low Impedance Injectors with ballasts and the results were so close to call it made little or no difference. We have done the same tests on the same engine with the Xtreme driving low Impedance Injectors with the P&H control and the engine made the same HP and used the same amount of fuel. So it still is all about how you control the Injectors. Do not buy a system that has P&H drivers just because the sales literature tells you it has this ability. As I said, some of these other systems do a really poor job of controlling even with this ability. The 944 engine is typically going to be run in group fuel, so why spend the extra to get nothing. I'm happy to supply the Xtreme if some want this, but in my opinion it's a waste of money. Please let them know that the way we have done the wiring for both of these wire in ECU's, the Strom requires only the A harness and the Xtreme needs A & B. The A wiring is exactly the same for both ECU's so upgrading, changes nothing in the wring. To use the Xtreme you add only the B harness. In the case of the 944, this would add only the Knock control. The Xtreme has huge amounts of ins and outs that will never be used in a 944 appplication. It really is a waste of money and an over kill. That been said, the Xtreme is still better value than some other systems.
2. What does the Xtreme offer over the Storm if used.
Not alot. As I have stated above, Knock control and P&H drivers. Good Ignition tuning and deadtime control over the saturated Injectors will give the same result. Use the Knock Link and you will have warning of detonation.
3. Ignition control and Knock seem to be the big issue that some have. What are your opinions on this.
I think I have covered this above.
4. How does the Storm control low Impedance Injectors compared to other systems and is this a issue.
Study the deadtime control in the software and you will understand why it is not a big deal to use saturated drivers. When looking at the software, remember to point your mouse at the menu label and right click on the heading. The tutorial will appear to tell you what the control etc is about.
Email me back if you get the chance and I will forward the info onto the forum.
Thanks for the email. It gave me a chance to get away from the wifes chores.
I'll talk to you his week. I'm home for the weekend and will be travelling all next week.
Simon
05-11-2009, 12:09 AM
#38
Brian,
The old system was the AFM link. At that time the AFM link was a discontinued item and not really suited for the 944. It was Vision Racing that bought them and made it a Porsche system. Link had to take care of all of the support. Vision ran and hid.
Comparing that with this is not even close. Still, there will be some that will not want to give this a go. I know they understand this. You cannot please all, all the time.
The old system was the AFM link. At that time the AFM link was a discontinued item and not really suited for the 944. It was Vision Racing that bought them and made it a Porsche system. Link had to take care of all of the support. Vision ran and hid.
Comparing that with this is not even close. Still, there will be some that will not want to give this a go. I know they understand this. You cannot please all, all the time.
05-11-2009, 12:33 AM
#40
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Link is from New Zealand. For some of my geographically challenged friends on Rennlist, that is NOT in Australia. They are separate countries. 
05-11-2009, 12:48 AM
#42
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Brian,
I think it was Vision from Ca. They adapted a Link product from NZ.
damn, now you got the Aussie's upset.. Stay on topic or break out your National treasure decoder glasses.
I think it was Vision from Ca. They adapted a Link product from NZ.
damn, now you got the Aussie's upset.. Stay on topic or break out your National treasure decoder glasses.
05-11-2009, 01:08 AM
#43
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05-11-2009, 01:19 AM
#44
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) through landscapes out of 'Lord of the Rings', where you come up behind someone and they pull over to let you past! Awesome.