tone3721

Could be done on pump gas. Have you forgotten 16v? 500+ is overkill on our cars. Again, if your looking for that type of car buy a vette. Our cars simply werent designed for that much output. It is what it is. You start reaching a threshold of lowered drivability when you get up to high, and break things left, and right. I dont have a dyno queen. I realize the limits of our transaxles, and chassis's. These are not drag cars. No matter how many extra cylinders you add. The V8 swap just seems backwards to me. Just increase displacement. The later blocks could be pushed to 3.9-4.0, alusil. Thats waaaaay more power with very little boost, than these cars can really handle. Unless its a point proving dyno queen. Not that that is a bad thing.

edit: come to AZ, powerhaus is running a 16v with similar specs. Actually I think he pushed well beyond that now. Dont quote me but I think they were saying 6's.

porshhhh951

I haven't heard what he will be using the car for. I agree I think 500rwhp for our cars is alot and you will be breaking things however to each their own. He said he's after power and you said the 3.0ltrs make plenty and if he isn't scared of spending money he could easily go that route. What I was merly pointing out to you is that if he is after power and driveability around town(I assume its a street car) that the LS3 makes ALOT of power, will last forever, and has the kind of powerband that makes it very easy to drive in any gear.


Normally 4cylinder engines that make that kind output suffer on the low end of things. Jims car made 600hp but, look at the powerband and look and what he has to go through to get those kinds of numbers. I'm not claiming to be a expert however I just haven't heard of any 3.0ltr that makes that kind of power on pump fuel and lasts.

I'm not trying to say any one way is better than they other. It all depends on what your after. Heck after all I still have my I4 in my car(what does that tell you). All i'm saying is there are points to be argued on both ends. I think people take this stuff a little too seriously.

At the end of the day its your car and your coin. Mod how you like, drive and enjoy in good health. Leave all the bull**** at the kiddy table.

tone3721

Aye. Agreed.

ST got 602whp on a 2.5 8v tho........3.0+16v.....nother story.

Whisper

Ah, well, perhaps I could explain what I had in mind.

I want to make a high-performing street car that drives well, handles well, looks good doing it, and accomplishes all of this without needing to spend more time with the hood up than down.

That means:

1. Engine can't be heavily tweaked. (increases hood-up time)
2. Needs lots of low-rpm torque. (daily drivers don't spend a lot of time at 5.5k rpm)
3. N/A is a big plus. (I especially do not like turbo lag)
4. Reliability isn't much a cost issue as a convenience issue. (I don't mind spending money when it breaks, but I want it to break *seldom*)

These considerations make the high-displacement N/A the clear choice for my plans.

A lower-displacement track car with really clever modifications might make high hp up above 4.5krpm or so, and a good driver could keep it there, but that car wouldn't be nearly as fun to tool around the SoCal freeway system in, because the 6.2 N/A performs far better at the lower tach range.

There ain't no replacement for a high displacement. I used to think otherwise, but I've been convinced.

tone3721

Tooling around the freeway? Wont be very low in the tach tooling around the freeway, thats where our turbos shine. These are not low end rev off the line cars. Youll spend more money fixing things your beefy V8 broke. You want to tool around the freeway with a engine designed to drag? Makes no sense to me. Again, throw all the power you want at it. Doesnt mean the rest of the car will take it. If your looking to wrap it out on the freeway what difference does lag make? Off the line, I could understand your reasoning. But these are not drag cars, vettes are. Your putting a low end tq drag engine in a car that wasnt designed for that function. Backwards to me.

Whisper

Okay, that's a little vague.

What is it on the car that you think will be broken by a "beefy v8", but will hold "3.0 ... 4-500 whp on pump gas"? The transaxle? The CV joints? The torque tube? Inquiring minds want to know.

333pg333

You could build a 3L that will do all of those things and have plenty of power up top. I think the defining point in this discussion is n/a vs psi. Some guys like it, others don't care so much for it. I imagine that a well sorted conversion would be a very compelling argument and some of us boost junkies would be hard pressed to disregard if we rode in say Tony or Travis' cars. The other point is for hood up or down lifestyle lol. I get the hood down aspect as much as the next guy, possibly more than some, but if we assume that both cars are in good condition and the motors are either crate or a full rebuild (possibly with many improvements) then we're again on a similar page. The difference will be cost. To do a really good 3L you will spend a bit more than the crate LS motor, but then you've got to pay more to install the LS so we're starting to get closer again.
Then there's the torque issue. We don't all have to have ST's curve. He built the car to serve a purpose. Just wait for a few more of these 3L that are in the wings and see their torque curves. They will be pretty impressive.
Really not a lot between them. You gotta ask yourself one question "Do you like boost punk, well do ya?"

CPR

Enough of this BS. Build the "kit" car, but discuss it elsewhere:

The Porsche Hybrids Board
If you're not interested in Porsche/V8 conversions, you're in the wrong place.

May be we need to put a disclaimer in our Forum:

[I]944 TURBO Forum
If your not interested in turbos, you're in the wrong place.[/I]

fastmover

People need to get off whispers and tony g's backs, The ls engines are far from drag only engines, I could swear the corvette c5r ran and won several american lemans races! there is a crap load of ls powered cars in grand am daytona prototypes. Its not a drag only engine. If you think you are a pure Porsche fan and you are rolling around in a 944 with a 3 liter engine, and calling 911's overpriced beetles (911 is still here, wheres the 944?) while claiming we should not mind spending money on our Porsches. I cant figure you out, I get it you are a diehard 944 fan, then put your 2.5 liter back in and shut up and smell the crap you are shoveling.
the ls engine is a far better engine then the inline 4 cylinder Porsche engine is. When was the last time you saw someone take one of out 2.5 liter engines and put into another make car? you dont, cause our engines suck overall, but we deal with them because we love our cars!
Back in the 80's the only thing that kept the 944 turbo s from being considered a supercar was the engine, what does that tell you.
I am tired of hearing about your 3.0, if you like it good, if someone esle likes the ls route, good. leave it at that. stop trying to convince everyone that one way is wrong and one way is right. Its all a matter of perspective. especially since you already came to the conclusion the the 2.5 leaves alot to be desired, otherwise you would not of changed to a 3.0

It took 10 pages for me to loose my patience, I think it is way cool that people do the ls swap, especially at the caliber of dvc's and tong g's. and it is way cool some of the modded 4's on the board. But damn putting someone down because they want to do the ls swap is irritating, coming from 944 owners, our cars barely qualify to be a Porsche in the 1st place.

Semper fi

marky522

Daym Gabe... Somone poke you with a stick??? Cant say i disagree though... To each his own, and telling someone to leave cause you dont agree with there views??? Thats BS, and thats not what rennlist is about.

Mark

CPR

well then maybe someone should ask IB to start a 944 hybrid/conversion forum.

Last I looked this one says "Turbo".

As for the conversion, I stated...I believe 3 times...that I am in the early stages of doing one myself. Just don't feel a Porsche Turbo forum is the place to discuss it, that is what the hybrid forum is for. As well as the claim that is still a "true" Porsche...it just simply would not be. No matter if it is a smattering of parts, it was/is a Porsche. Period.

OR:

I guess a Cadillac is actually a Malibu, Jaguar is a Ford Contour, Mercedes CLK 320 is a Dodge Crossfire, Acura NSX is a Honda Accord, Pontiac G8 is a Corvette, Range Rover is a Ford Explorer, Porsche Cayman is a VW, Mercedes 500 is a Plymouth 300M, Audi is a Jetta, etc.....I could go on for days.

These are but a few examples of manufacturers who share technology, components and parts. Do these cars "barely" qualify to be called by their respective names because of these partnerships?

Just my opinion...just how I feel, nothing more, nothing less. And definitely not an attack on TonyG or anyone else.

marky522

Well if thats the case then putting an LS into a 944 we are putting Porsche back into the cars... If you want to put it that way... And you forgot that a cayenne is a Ford.

Mark

333pg333

Actually if you want to get really into the details, our cars are more a genuine Porsche than the 911. Yup, you read that correctly. Do a bit of research and you'll find that our hero Dr Porsche ripped off the design from Tatra, who previously may have indeed done a little plagiarism himself. Whereas our i4 comes from a total in house design being essentially half the 928 motor.

While this is all a moot point and indeed the rear engined cars have outlived ours convincingly, it's still a fact.

I'm not putting any of these guys like Tony or Travis down. Their cars are possibly examples of what might have become ours had the models lasted.

I've visited the Hybrid forums and there are a bunch of helpful and tech savvy guys on there as well.

It's all just another storm in a teacup on a forum full of keyboard warriors. lol. No harm no foul as you guys like to say.

lart951

I think both Tiny and pvc are compensating for something missing in their manhood.

U know what they say V8 small p......

CPR

Mark,

You lost me a bit here.

I listed actual examples of current (and Past) cars that share/borrow substantial amounts of technology from each other to place on their respective models.

What Ford parts does the Cayenne utilise? And did not follow the LS analogy at all.

Any insight is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
PATRICK