I will have to recind my membership...
03-17-2009, 07:04 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
It had darton dry sleeves with JE's, just a baffled pan, modified oil pick-up, and an IJ scraper/ windage pan.
Got the engine out, rod cap and parts of rod that make up rod journal are black, so it did starve number one for oil.
I watched my video and no oil pressure light, which is in plain view, came on till I pushed in the clutch and stopped the crank turning.
I use Amsoil 20/50 series 2000
Got the engine out, rod cap and parts of rod that make up rod journal are black, so it did starve number one for oil.
I watched my video and no oil pressure light, which is in plain view, came on till I pushed in the clutch and stopped the crank turning.
I use Amsoil 20/50 series 2000
03-17-2009, 07:26 PM
#32
Monkeys Removed by Request
Lifetime Rennlist
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Thanks for all the condolences.
Cant go with a V-8 and stay in NASA GTS.
I'll keep you in mind when I decide what to do, Max, thanks.
Thanks for your offer to Spooly, but I'm gonna need a lot more then a block.
I guess my real decision is do I part the whole thing or install a 2.5 8 valve wich will easily make enough power to stay in GTS 3
or (GASP!) take proceedes from part out and buy an M3, which seems to be the weapon of choice.
I dont know if I will ever know exactly what happened, I wonder if re-drilling the crank could make the common scenario of number 2 rod problems move to number 1.
The bottom end was fresh at the beginning of last seaseon,
this was the 6th weekend since then, so 1 practice, 2 qualifying sessions, and 4 races per weekend times six is how old everything was.
Sure wish I had decided to pull the pan and rod caps before the beginning of this season.
If i keep the car I'll have a few things for sale pretty soon,
If I part the whole thing I'll have a lot of nice stuff for sale
but not till mid summer.
Thats it, I'm done being upset about it , time to fall back, re-group, and attack with superior intelligence, and superior fire power.
Thanks again
Cant go with a V-8 and stay in NASA GTS.
I'll keep you in mind when I decide what to do, Max, thanks.
Thanks for your offer to Spooly, but I'm gonna need a lot more then a block.
I guess my real decision is do I part the whole thing or install a 2.5 8 valve wich will easily make enough power to stay in GTS 3
or (GASP!) take proceedes from part out and buy an M3, which seems to be the weapon of choice.
I dont know if I will ever know exactly what happened, I wonder if re-drilling the crank could make the common scenario of number 2 rod problems move to number 1.
The bottom end was fresh at the beginning of last seaseon,
this was the 6th weekend since then, so 1 practice, 2 qualifying sessions, and 4 races per weekend times six is how old everything was.
Sure wish I had decided to pull the pan and rod caps before the beginning of this season.
If i keep the car I'll have a few things for sale pretty soon,
If I part the whole thing I'll have a lot of nice stuff for sale
but not till mid summer.
Thats it, I'm done being upset about it , time to fall back, re-group, and attack with superior intelligence, and superior fire power.
Thanks again
03-18-2009, 09:23 AM
#35
Racer
Thread Starter
I dont know exactly what oil pressure was but the light comes on under 25 psi. It would come on after race on hot day at idle
when pressure was still over 1 bar.
I'm not real savy when it comes to posting video, but I might be able to get someone to help me, it may be a week or two, but if I can I will.
I was shifting about 6500 or so, shift light comes on at 7k
but I did'nt feel the need to spin the thing any tighter than that.
Still not sure the route I'm going to take yet.
Driving to work this morning I had a strong urge to part out entire car.
when pressure was still over 1 bar.
I'm not real savy when it comes to posting video, but I might be able to get someone to help me, it may be a week or two, but if I can I will.
I was shifting about 6500 or so, shift light comes on at 7k
but I did'nt feel the need to spin the thing any tighter than that.
Still not sure the route I'm going to take yet.
Driving to work this morning I had a strong urge to part out entire car.
03-18-2009, 10:58 AM
#36
Burning Brakes
Phlip, very sorry to hear of the demise of your 3.0 engine, I think this is all our worst nightmare. I was thinking about this problem and was wondering why this seems to effect 944 turbos in particular. I do not hear of it happening to any of the 968's regularly tracked and raced here in the UK. Is there a reason why it happens so much to these cars and not the normally aspirated cars? Does the fact that they are in a higher state of tune make such a difference to the bottom end lubrication requirements? Or am I wrong and it happens to all the 944/68 range?
03-18-2009, 12:31 PM
#37
Pro
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It would be interesting to see if any other rod bearings show signs of heat discoloration also.
But I recall that someone here on Rennlist once speculated that perhaps the common problem with losing the #2 rod bearing may have something to do with the fact that the turbo oil feed is tapped into the same region as the #2 crank journal. Hence, would it be possible that the bearings in the front region may experience a drop in local oil pressure? (for example, during simultaneous cornering and turbo spool-up ?).
Now granted in this case it was the #1 journal, but it might be possible that the #1 journal might also be affected by this same problem?
If that theory is correct, would it make sense to install some type of oil pressure “accumulator” between the balance shaft oil tap and the turbo oil inlet?
But I recall that someone here on Rennlist once speculated that perhaps the common problem with losing the #2 rod bearing may have something to do with the fact that the turbo oil feed is tapped into the same region as the #2 crank journal. Hence, would it be possible that the bearings in the front region may experience a drop in local oil pressure? (for example, during simultaneous cornering and turbo spool-up ?).
Now granted in this case it was the #1 journal, but it might be possible that the #1 journal might also be affected by this same problem?
If that theory is correct, would it make sense to install some type of oil pressure “accumulator” between the balance shaft oil tap and the turbo oil inlet?
03-18-2009, 12:32 PM
#38
Racer
Thread Starter
I've seen NA 44's and 68's have problems with oiling from heavy track use. And I know people who've tracked turbo cars for years and never had any crank or rod oiling issues.
Funny you should mention state of tune, I had just dropped 2 classes and was only making about 260 at the wheels, while last year I was making over 400 at wheels
My turbo oil feed comes from the remote filter housing. Not the balance shaft housing.
I'll have the bottom end completely apart maybe today and will let everyone know what I find.
Funny you should mention state of tune, I had just dropped 2 classes and was only making about 260 at the wheels, while last year I was making over 400 at wheels
My turbo oil feed comes from the remote filter housing. Not the balance shaft housing.
I'll have the bottom end completely apart maybe today and will let everyone know what I find.
03-18-2009, 07:56 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Were you using piston squirters, and a crankshaft vibration damper?
03-18-2009, 08:26 PM
#41
Drifting
I dont know exactly what oil pressure was but the light comes on under 25 psi. It would come on after race on hot day at idle
when pressure was still over 1 bar.
I'm not real savy when it comes to posting video, but I might be able to get someone to help me, it may be a week or two, but if I can I will.
I was shifting about 6500 or so, shift light comes on at 7k
but I did'nt feel the need to spin the thing any tighter than that.
Still not sure the route I'm going to take yet.
Driving to work this morning I had a strong urge to part out entire car.
when pressure was still over 1 bar.
I'm not real savy when it comes to posting video, but I might be able to get someone to help me, it may be a week or two, but if I can I will.
I was shifting about 6500 or so, shift light comes on at 7k
but I did'nt feel the need to spin the thing any tighter than that.
Still not sure the route I'm going to take yet.
Driving to work this morning I had a strong urge to part out entire car.
We live by the rule of changing big ends at the end of each season, on all of our customers and our track cars.
03-18-2009, 08:55 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Vibration damper. Its in the pulley, on the frontend of the crank. Dampers harmonics the extra stroke causes. 968 uses a dual mass flywheel, cars w/o DM should use the pulley vibration damper, in theory could lead to crankshaft failure.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/...rt%3A%20PULLEY
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/...rt%3A%20PULLEY
03-19-2009, 09:18 AM
#43
Racer
Thread Starter
No piston squirters, rods are gun drilled to provide oil to wrist pins.
No vibration damper but this was not related to failure, at least I dont think so.
Got engine fully apart and # 4 rod is badly discolored, it was close to failure, all rod bearings look pretty bad, #4 had copper showing, pulled the girdle and all the mains look fine, I could spin the crank by hand.
Max oil temp that weekend was about 210, I've seen 240 at
college station in august, with 100 ambient, I use a very large mocal cooler for a 911.
I thought about pulling the pan and replacing rod bearings, but ran out of time.
No vibration damper but this was not related to failure, at least I dont think so.
Got engine fully apart and # 4 rod is badly discolored, it was close to failure, all rod bearings look pretty bad, #4 had copper showing, pulled the girdle and all the mains look fine, I could spin the crank by hand.
Max oil temp that weekend was about 210, I've seen 240 at
college station in august, with 100 ambient, I use a very large mocal cooler for a 911.
I thought about pulling the pan and replacing rod bearings, but ran out of time.
03-19-2009, 02:58 PM
#45
Three Wheelin'
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Sorry to hear of what happen to you. These are things I hear that make me wanna turn down my boost for a while
Hope you get her back together soon and back to tracking <----- that is the addiction for me
Hope you get her back together soon and back to tracking <----- that is the addiction for me