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Rear wing options???

 
Old 02-24-2009, 07:46 AM
  #16  
thingo
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Yea it is a simple device, but very effective.
Yes nice rs, I think that'd be 968trs #1.
I'm intending to drive my 951 for a while before the 968 is done, but it will be a gradual process, the evo is quick but that isn't everything.
I will probably start with a stockish wing initially.
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:57 AM
  #17  
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Found another car, take a look at photo 34 here:
http://www.pcsracing.se/fotoalbum/2008-04-18%20Mantorp/

Very good comparison with the regular 968 turbo s wing at photo 35.
I would want a wing like photo 35 (996 cup) but that would take a lot of effort to make a solution that looks factory.
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Old 02-24-2009, 08:00 AM
  #18  
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Here's another variant:
http://www.pcsracing.se/fotoalbum/20...al/b_0191.html

Doesn't have the looks, but should be very effective.
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:51 AM
  #19  
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Hi Patrick thanks for the message and I’ll update for you here as requested

I understand your desired requirement for a wing that mounts to the rear extruded aluminum frame with Lexan so you can easily swap out for road or track use but in reality it’s not a good idea.

I never knew you had artistic drawing skills in you – Nice artist’s impression of a modified TRS wing BUT whilst looking functional this is not recommended for the reasons I will detail below:

The TRS wing is mounted with 4 very small 4mm M8 bolts (about 60mm long) which screw through the very thin hatch frame up into each side of the FRP which use “RIV Nuts” to secure. While these are fine for the standard TRS adjustable wing, with the additional downforce/drag a larger and higher positioned wing will act as a lever which very likely will rip clean off. Remember the rear hatch is not a solid mounting point which succumbs to vibration also again very very marginally reducing efficiency but more important the additional lever force will help separation of the lexan from the frame through a combination of continuous vibration and flexing forces. For our new TRS Version 2 wing we are increasing the 4 bolt system to 6 which provide a better secure mounting but again this wing is nowhere near as highly mounted from the screen frame as you are looking at hence the lever effect will be dramatically reduced – I have seen this done before though and as other have posted pics of - It's just not ideal.

The Riviera Blue 944 you have attached pics of does look very interesting and I’d love to see how the wings mounts through the lexan to the trunk floor/chassis rails – A very nicely designed unit which looks very sturdy.

The locally sourced CF wing you can get locally look odd in my opinion (very jap) and you going to spend a lot of money fabricating mounting brackets so best going for a solution which is available and others are using with good proven results.

The pic of the red 968 TRS I sent to Patrick to show exactly what Rod and Eliot have pointed out. This car features the Version 2 TRS wing plus the addition of a “in the great words of Elliot – Wicker Bill” (not heard that on before but like it ).

Here is a better pic of what Elliot refers to:



For anybody who has not seen the TRS Version 2 we are recreating at the moment then there is a full thread about this over on the 968 board:

https://rennlist.com/forums/968-foru...velopment.html

While I would agree that Porsche would have done some testing back then, I also might assume that the choice / design of wings back then weren't as broad as they are now. Plus there may have been something in the rules with homologation or the fact that they couldn't run a big wing on a road car?
What wing are you intending to run Rod?
I think it was more a homologation thing but don’t quote me on that.

Duke that picture you have posted is the same as Beni developed about 3 years ago:



This is now in full production:



Cheers,
Mark
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:13 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by future View Post
Duke that picture you have posted is the same as Beni developed about 3 years ago
Sorry Mark, the picture I posted is 6 years old

I agree what you're saying about the mount not being stiff/secure and I too would like another option. But the solution proposed by Patrick has been used by club racers in Sweden for many years and in many configurations.
I've never heard of a broken mount. Doesn't mean it's the best alternative, but it works.
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:18 AM
  #21  
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Yes mate as I clearly stated I also have not heard of a broken mount - It just isn't the best solution as you appear to agree!

Does Pupan still have his 951? Last I saw was when he mounted the Rial rims which looks fantastic
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:22 AM
  #22  
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Duke - No it is actually not exactly the same as Beni's which is boxed in.

Beni made his from a basic front wing (not sure where from) and the side bits he purchased from a universal automotive store here in the UK and then modified the whole unit to fit and work correctly. I do not know how Pupan made his and not seen that pic before of his car in its early developments -Great car all the same mate
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:26 AM
  #23  
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These wings and modifications do/will work, they just need not rely solely on the OEM moutning points hardware....IMO.

Quick detach style support rods seem as if they would supplement appropriately. And would allow for stress/load transference to the more stable portions of the body. Given their nature (quick release/detach) they could also be removed rapidly for street/normal driving and/or actuatio of the hatch mechanisms.
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:42 AM
  #24  
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Hence why I suggested that the Riviera Blue 944 Patrick Garvan posted a picture of looks like the best compromise

You have just gone over everything I have previously stated.

If you feel there is a good market for another high level product like this then why not develop one for sale instead of trying to recreate a TRS wing which is readily available both in Europe and the US with or without a carbon section - At least we are doing something different.

Furthermore and to the point these high level wings are available from several sources - Patrick G is simply asking the question because he has a TRS wing from http://www.v-zweeden.com/ already which he would like to use if possible which is just as baddly fitted as the one you have just posted in another thread - I'm just stating the obvious and if the solution is a half **** job then I wouldn't recommend it which I am sure you will appreciate!
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:52 AM
  #25  
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I simply offered insight as to how I would mount a modified wing.

Not sure what your problem is with that.
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:56 AM
  #26  
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I simply offered insight as to how I would mount a modified wing.

Not sure what your problem is with that.
No problem at all mate you just covered what I had already stated
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Old 02-24-2009, 03:43 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Duke View Post
Here's another variant:
http://www.pcsracing.se/fotoalbum/20...al/b_0191.html

Doesn't have the looks, but should be very effective.
Do not think so. The same with the picture Patrick drew. Not stable enough. IMO a wing should be mounted straight to the chassis beams


Originally Posted by future View Post
Hence why I suggested that the Riviera Blue 944 Patrick Garvan posted a picture of looks like the best compromise
Yes.

That is like the wing I have: really effective.



The wing itself is a copy from the GT3 Cup wing, mounted through the lexan. I recently posted some pictures the way it was mounted to the chassis

Not cheap, but certainly not USD 2000
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:02 PM
  #28  
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As previously stated, it certainly is important for all downforce creating features (splitter, wing) to be tied to the chassis to directly transmit the force to the car.

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Old 02-24-2009, 04:42 PM
  #29  
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A few more pics of that Blue cars wing mounting setup. Not going to be concerned with the wing ripping off with this.

While I agree that my initial proposition doesn't look very stable, perhaps there's a way of increasing this?
I can see that you could do something more akin to Hans' and just detach that between meetings. This is possibly what I'll have to do. As for the cheap wing, well I still think so long as the aero part of it works, then to shift the struts or change them won't be as expensive as importing one of those beautiful CWEST types. Btw Mark do you have a link to their catalogue?
Then again the ease of using on of the TRS types with the extended 'Wicker' is appealing to for it's looks and simplicity.
Sheesh....
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:51 PM
  #30  
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That is ceratainly a stable setup, but not something you could put on street car.
I'm thinking about a setup like the car below, with internal bracing similar to the blue car above to take care of the load.

For a street car I have 3 requirements, 1 that I can actually open the rear hatch to load tools and stuff for track meeting, 2) no holes in the rear hatch 3) a mounting of the wing that feels safe to leave unattended on the street occasionally.
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