Heads up 951 vs 928 S4 in Excellence
12-20-2008, 04:41 PM
#18
Race Director
Good write up, and I think all of us would bring our own bias when picking between the two cars. I would love to have both of them (at this point I would just like to have a car, but after 4 years with out one, I don't see that changing soon), but if I had to choose just one, my bias and history of owning 944's would land me in the 951.
Thanks for sharing the link.....
Thanks for sharing the link.....
12-20-2008, 05:02 PM
#19
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What is it with Porsche enthusiasts shunning a car that is faster and better handling?
Oh well. I would like a 928 for commuting maybe but for a fun weekend car I don't see the point.
Oh well. I would like a 928 for commuting maybe but for a fun weekend car I don't see the point.
12-20-2008, 05:41 PM
#20
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Well lets start with the fact that Pete (the author) is an obvious 928 fan and posts on the 928 boards. I'm sure it's not hard to get someone to write an equally biased article in favour of the 951. I don't mean that the article wasn't good, but the personnel preferences are there to see. This is also not an apples for apples comparison. It's clear that 911s and 928s are favoured by Excellence over the 4 cylinder siblings too. Something to do with demographics I'd imagine. You don't see too many surgeons driving low slung 951s, but they can manage to pour themselves into the 928's more accommodating rooms.
I suppose the fairest thing would be to spend the money that you save in purchasing the 951 of a similar quality (Average $5k diff?), then put on a bigger turbo and exhaust and maybe some springs and then see how much difference that makes? It used to be that you would multiply a turbocharged engine by 1.4 wasn't it? How about 1.6 just to make it fairer. That comes out to be a 4 litre n/a motor. Maybe we should be comparing the 951 to the earliest 928. Let's see what happens then? No contest.
The 928 is a great GT and can be made into a very decent performance car with some money thrown at it. So can the 951.
I suppose the fairest thing would be to spend the money that you save in purchasing the 951 of a similar quality (Average $5k diff?), then put on a bigger turbo and exhaust and maybe some springs and then see how much difference that makes? It used to be that you would multiply a turbocharged engine by 1.4 wasn't it? How about 1.6 just to make it fairer. That comes out to be a 4 litre n/a motor. Maybe we should be comparing the 951 to the earliest 928. Let's see what happens then? No contest.
The 928 is a great GT and can be made into a very decent performance car with some money thrown at it. So can the 951.
Last edited by 333pg333; 12-20-2008 at 06:00 PM.
12-20-2008, 06:00 PM
#21
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The article was really pretty good. It pointed out that the 951 is a faster, more nimble, better all around sports car.
He just likes the 928 better for his own personal reasons.
He just likes the 928 better for his own personal reasons.
12-20-2008, 06:02 PM
#22
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He is pretty chummy over on the 928 boards so we stood no chance from the outset.
12-20-2008, 06:24 PM
#23
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A 5spd S4 would have to be a fun drive...... but go try to find one...... It seems there are 10 in the US. I have never even seen one in person.
Put the author in a modestly setup 300+hp 944T with a lightly rubbed on suspension (reasonable spring rates, sway bars and a corner balance) and the author would think S4 is a dump truck on the track.
Put the author in a modestly setup 300+hp 944T with a lightly rubbed on suspension (reasonable spring rates, sway bars and a corner balance) and the author would think S4 is a dump truck on the track.
12-20-2008, 06:48 PM
#24
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12-20-2008, 07:23 PM
#25
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... BUT ... I ended up going with a 951 when I ... had a chance to drive one that was set up for autocrossing. Its boost came on around 2200 rpm's and its suspension had 968 sport pieces installed. WOW! What a different car. In short a 951 has alot more potential than a 928 does! I would love to see this article again comparing the two with about $5000 in upgrades. I dont think the 928 would have a chance but you must admit that a black 928 GTS is one of the best looking cars out there.
An ignorant question, how much does a 951 weigh?
And an observation, $5k can bolt a lot of performance onto a 928, too.
Sorry, can't resist mentioning that I also preferred the Scorpio to the XR4Ti.
12-20-2008, 07:48 PM
#26
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Hey Will
951 weight depends on year and options.
My 86 street car (full interior, stereo, etc) with safety gear (roll bar/extinguisher/etc) a full load of fuel and 185lb driver comes in under 3,000#
Several 951 race cars in the 2600# wet range
951 weight depends on year and options.
My 86 street car (full interior, stereo, etc) with safety gear (roll bar/extinguisher/etc) a full load of fuel and 185lb driver comes in under 3,000#
Several 951 race cars in the 2600# wet range
12-20-2008, 08:41 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
I'm an old guy - 356 to 911 to 928 (who chose the V-8 after driving an NA 944 ) - but the low-RPM boost sounds interesting. <more>, please.
I am almost 40 now so by the sounds of it, one of the old guys on this forum. But as to answer your question on getting more low end boost. The way that I did it was with Tim's help from Speed Force Racing. Setting up my system he sent me headers, stage 1 turbonetics turbo, full 3" exhaust, chips, fuel pressure reg. I had the head ported and polished, and the block sleeved and run lighter pintons as well. BUT I think the biggest thing that helps the 951 spool up faster is upgrading and controlling the waste gate. I played with a new cycling valve on stock chips and stock wg vs. switching the wg to a Tail and allowing it to control its self. I am sure that the stock wg was tired but all said it was an amazing difference in spool up time.
But as far a getting more bang for the buck. $5000 spent on a Turbo 951 will give you alot more HP than any NA car will.
Also 150hp NA 944 is not even the same car as a 951 (most on this forum are around 300+WHP). Just do yourself a favor and drive one. If you like sports cars and Porsches You will fall in love with the 951.
P.S. I liked the article alot. I think that Pete wrote a very good piece and described each vehicle very well. Both cars are different but special Porsches. So what if he likes 928's more. I like the 951. That is why Porsche made both at the same time.
I am almost 40 now so by the sounds of it, one of the old guys on this forum. But as to answer your question on getting more low end boost. The way that I did it was with Tim's help from Speed Force Racing. Setting up my system he sent me headers, stage 1 turbonetics turbo, full 3" exhaust, chips, fuel pressure reg. I had the head ported and polished, and the block sleeved and run lighter pintons as well. BUT I think the biggest thing that helps the 951 spool up faster is upgrading and controlling the waste gate. I played with a new cycling valve on stock chips and stock wg vs. switching the wg to a Tail and allowing it to control its self. I am sure that the stock wg was tired but all said it was an amazing difference in spool up time.
But as far a getting more bang for the buck. $5000 spent on a Turbo 951 will give you alot more HP than any NA car will.
Also 150hp NA 944 is not even the same car as a 951 (most on this forum are around 300+WHP). Just do yourself a favor and drive one. If you like sports cars and Porsches You will fall in love with the 951.
P.S. I liked the article alot. I think that Pete wrote a very good piece and described each vehicle very well. Both cars are different but special Porsches. So what if he likes 928's more. I like the 951. That is why Porsche made both at the same time.
Last edited by Richgreenster; 12-20-2008 at 09:12 PM. Reason: adding more.
12-20-2008, 10:56 PM
#28
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I liked the article and also felt it was fair. Just based on the author's opinions, which he, of course, is entitled to. I think there may some confusion with the 5k to spend comment.
1. 5k in extras on a turbo car will generally yield greater gains than on a NA car and
2. The whole point was that a 928 is already 5k more than a similar condition 951
So if we are going to talk about what 5k will do to a 928 we should compare that to what 10k will do to a turbo car - yikes
1. 5k in extras on a turbo car will generally yield greater gains than on a NA car and
2. The whole point was that a 928 is already 5k more than a similar condition 951
So if we are going to talk about what 5k will do to a 928 we should compare that to what 10k will do to a turbo car - yikes
12-20-2008, 11:38 PM
#30
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i read it a couple days ago- good article, ive never driven a 928 or even sat in one so i couldnt tell you if one is better than another- i just like the looks of my turbo better. V8 does sound awsome though.