Gator_86_951

I guess my question is how much more I can crank this thing over? Am I doing any damage to the new engine since I have to keep cranking it to check everything.

So far I have shown the relay will power the DME and I don't think there is a fuel pump problem. Jumpered both terminals anyways just to see if the car would start that way. Brand new reference and speed sensors etc....

I did install a new vitesse chip for my 26/8 that I put on this car. I was considering taking the vitesse DME chip out and replacing it with my old europroducts chip. I won't do that until I have proven there is no spark which I can't really do by myself as I am alone in the shop.

I guess I really just need to know if I am doing any damage to the new engine by cranking it over so much.

Gator_86_951

As for checking for spark all we would need to do is disconnect it from a plug and see if it arcs to something reasonable, right? Keep it away from fuel and such of course.

zoltan944

ya anything grounded should spark
If you prelubed everything you should be okay. Cranking will still produce oil pressure so you are okay.

Rich Sandor

That is not a guarantee that you are getting fuel!!! You need to pull the spark plugs after a crank attempt and check to make sure that each chamber is getting fuel. (poke a kleenex on the end of a rod and swab it around) If only 1 or 2 out of 4 are getting fuel, that is enough for the engine not to run. (trust me, been there, I know)

If each cylinder is getting fuel - test the plugs. I touch it anything that's grounded to get it to arc while someone is cranking for you.

That's the only positive way to tell if it's either a fuel or spark problem.

If it's got both fuel and spark, it might not be getting enough air, or there may be a problem with the computer not giving the proper a/f ratio - or also you may have wired up the spark plugs wrong (i had that happen once - it wouldn't run!)

Gator_86_951

This is what I figured.

I was going to walk though everything rich mentioned tomorrow. I am just way over this project right now. I strongly encourage anybody taking an entire 951 apart to rethink what they are doing. I don't think I have had anything go smoothly during this project. I am pretty confident I am not getting spark/fuel injection right now.

By way of example, I forgot that part of a fastener had broken on my a/c compressor on one of the mounting ears. How is this even possible?

philcav7

If you are by yourself test for spark with a timing light. Clamp it on the plug(coil) and tuck it between the back of the hood and the windshield as you crank it over.

What's 'new' on the engine? I asssume you used assembly lube? Shouldn't be much of a concern, I wouldn't think for typical "what did I do wrong" diagnostics after a build. Not sure of the effects of long term cranking.

Rich Sandor

Gator - don't worry about it buddy - you may be in over your head - but that's the only way we learn how to swim. And we're all here to help you out.

Ski

and lots of assembly lube was used on the mains and rod bearings. Andrew, just curious, did you ohm out the wiring harness before you put the engine in, like the fuel injector contacts were all good?
S & R sensors hooked up right? Double checked your plug wires on the cap? The little things toward the end...hang in there.

Rock

First see if the tach is jumping while the engine is cranking.

If it isnt, then try checking the speed and reference sensor clearences. OR swap the speed and reference sensor connections on the wiring harness, perhaps you have them backward. This can also cause a no start.

If the tach IS jumping, then try looking elsewhere and make sure the injectors are firing. You can get a Noid light at autozone for like 4 dollars. Unplug an injector and plug it into the harness. It will flash if the injectors are firing.

fast951

Start by eliminating possible causes. Go back to whatever setup you had when you last started the engine and it ran. Install your old chips (DME & KLR) if needed, existing chips might have been somehow damaged?

Gator_86_951

I am 99% sure there is a short in the injector harness. I fixed a short 4 years ago and luckily I was able to harvest an injector connector off of an old forumula SAE harness and the short was at the connector itself. I am sure I will be screwed and the short this time will be somewhere ridiculous.

Gator_86_951

I should have been more clear that I wasn't blaming your chips. Sorry. I doubt very seriously that your eprom was damaged somehow. In the 10 years I have been dealing with EPROMs I have never even seen one burned incorrectly. I've burned hundreds myself.

Gator_86_951

Here is the skinny:

The reference sensors are brand new. If there is a problem it is in the DME harness which is of course ridiculous to fix.

I have to check all of the injector contacts. If there is a short here I might be lucky again and it is a bad connector, which won't be luck at all because I don't even know where I could source one locally. I got lucky last time because we had that old UF SAE harness.

Plug wires are wired correctly but I had to borrow one from another turbo because one of mine broke. Big suprise since just about everything else on this car has broken when I have taken it off or put it on.

The sad thing is that I am not in over my head. I just don't have the care left to deal with this. I have been working an average of 10 hours a day since I sat for the bar exam in late february with a few days off here and there, to go to Sebring for instance. EVERYTHING on this car has been ridiculous. I have had an inordinate amount of trouble none of which was caused by me, which has been compounded by exceptionally bad advice and plain error of others. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of being that incorrect in what I do for a living or I would be sued for malpractice.

In short, if the car doesn't start between all day today, which will probably go until 2AM at least or all day tomorrow I am going to stop the project and start working in DC. The car can roll around on wheels now, which means I can trailer it up there at some point. I was planning on finding a townhouse with a garage in Alexandria anyways. If this happens the car will probably never go together.

fast951

I understand, there is no problem here. However, any part can go bad, this is why I suggested eliminating the chip. I have seen chips fail for no reason at all, so I never rule a damaged chip. Considering the options, I'm hoping it's the chip, as it'll be the simplest to fix.

PS. I have seen many KLR chips just fail. If possible, start with well working DME & KLR units and chips. Hopefully someone is close to you that you can borrow their units.

Gator_86_951

Now that I have had somebody else cranking the car we have verified that the injectors are firing. We don't have spark though. I am going to get some food and then I am going to switch the DME EPROM. If that doesn't work, I'll check the signal wire(s) to coil to see if the DME can talk to the coil.