I am currently moving to a stand-alone ECU, DTA S60 Pro.

This unit does not have knock-control functionality.

What do you guys with stand alone ECU's do?

• Forget about knock control
  
• Implement a separate knock monitoring unit, and if so which, and 'control' it manually, i.e. release the accelerator or adjust timing in case knock is detected
  
• Implement a form of automated knock control, and if so, how?

Looking forward to you input.

 

doesn't work, a knock control takes thousands of hour to perfect with factory engineers.

so sorry, but forget it, anything else is pretty much a lie

 

It looks like you could program the DTA to switch maps when it receives a signal. You could reuse your old KLR to pass the knock count on to the DTA. Alternatively, I think a system like J&S safeguard can take your ignition output and retard it before passing it to the coil.

 

Safeguard gets lots of good reviews.

Or get a standalone that can do knock sensing.

 

correcto mundo !


Hans,
adjust on a loaded dyno , once adjusted properly you will never need knock sensing unless you run the car with a lower octane fuel . use the F/p input so the ecu monitors your reference f/p amt. if you do the voltage and f/p table, you have covered all the bases in case of failure , next would be the driver , send the knock voltage to your nuts ......... .

 

I dont think there is a better knock sensing option than the J&S at least I havent found one.

 

A properly tuned standalone doesn't need a knock sensor. Keep in mind you will need to always use the same gas and general maintenance becomes critical for keeping the car running safe.

 

So whats the difference between tuning on a loaded dyno and having an ECU detect the knock. How do you sense knock on a loaded dyno?? You still have to set some sort of baseline of where mechanical noise ends and knock starts.

I think the first post was really asking if the ECU has it should you use it. Why not. If the engine is tuned on a dyno where some sort of knock sensing system was used and all other checks included, the system should be there "just in case". The problem in a race engine, it may come into use if some engine noise becomes apparent on the last lap on the last corner with second place right behind you. It would come down to how much you valued your engine over winning.

BTW Hans, hope you get your question answered before my "blow hole" friend an I get into another tangle over how much he thinks he knows.

 

I got the turbo XS shift light knock light combo the idea of the way it samples the background noise at different rpm for a refrence also the price is good . sorry at this stage i can't say how good it is. The problem with a closed loop set up is realy it needs to be fail safe meaning safe if it fails as does the dme/klr if the KLR or sensor fails you are left 3 degrees retarded . I've been intending to probe all the inputs and outs puts to and from the KLR with an osciliscope maybe then you could retain the KLR with a programable computer

 

As a side note to this, I have a Wolf3D standalone, plugin ECU in my 951. At the moment Im still running the KLR, as I can't quite work out what passes through it from the ECU.

I know that the TPS gets its power from the KLR, but I'm not sure what else, does anyone have the pinouts for the ECU and KLR handy?

Sorry for the bit of a threadjack ....

 

Hans, from what I have found with my setup, which is for a street car, I would like to have the knock control. Even though I have the TEC3 with the GM knock sensor I have found the GM knock sensor is so sensitive that at anything above about 3200rpm it picks up so much of the engine's mechanical noise such as balance shafts and overhead cam that it is difficult to set the trigger point for the TEC3 to retard timing. I couldn't get the TEC3 to read the Bosch sensor which is much less sensitive and puts out a lower voltage signal.

Since I run on the street and can put 2 or 3,000 miles a month on it I would like to have the benefit of knock control in case of a bad batch of gas at a station while on the road etc.. The J&S Safeguard seems to have a good system that will intercept the coil firing signal of the TEC3, and after it learning what normal Mechanical noises are it can then be set to sense a knock, determine which cylinder knocked and then the next combustion event retard the timing on that cylinder alone. For me a bit of insurance, and not something to replace proper tuning. I know you will get the tuning right and since you have a track car extracting the most power and best power band is critical. Having the timing up close to the limit it might be good to have a bit of insurance to protect the engine when that one injector gets a bit weak and doesn't do its job exactly right. Just my personal input and what I am planning to try rather than spend the hours trying to tune the GM knock sensor to work with my ECU and noisy engine.
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/index.html

 

Are you running the V400 or V500? I've got a document I put together (I'm looking at running the KLR with Wolf). I'll dig it up for you in the next couple of days.

 

That would be EXCELLENT, I'm running for V400.

 

It's not the sensor, it's the way ECU interprets signal from the sensor. If one cannot tune the knock frequency and level manually, knock sensing on specific ECU is worthless.

ECU needs to be "teached" what is the knock frequency (=resonance freq. of the specific cylinder) and then level it knocks. This helps the ECU not to react on usual engine noise but to knocking itself.

I know few ECU's that do it very good if tuned properly and it doesn't take hundreds of hours, just few of tens of hours

 

Thx guys, for all the input.

For my situation (track only, no class rules that benefit putting an engine to the max) I guess careful and a little conservative dyno tuning will do.

An automated system like Safeguard is useful when you push the engine, and rely on the knock control to take care of the limits.

It would be nice to have a system like Knocklink or the TurboXS unit to warn for potentially harmful situations, but then it should be reliable. From what I read on the internet the results are inconclusive. Knocklink seems to get more favorable votes.

But then I agree with m42racer: What happens in a race when the light comes up? I honestly could not say what my reaction would be.....

As to the function of the KLR, again I am not to sure. In one of my engines I had problems with high level detonation chipping away the HG. the KLR did not detect this.