tommo951

What is everybody's view? Is anybody running them?
I have just ordered a set from Total Seal, been recommended them by some top end international sportcar teams

Chris White

I have use them with good results - keep in mind that total seal makes many diffent types. Their latests versions have a gapless top ring made of a material suitable for turbo engines. The gapless top has some good theroitcal properties - better oiling for the ring package and less liklyo have a flutter problem due to trapped pressure between the 1st adn 2nd ring sets.

Oh - and they come with stickers too...

Ski

Chris, are the ring sets they sell Alusil friendly?

Chris White

Alusil? whats that?
Seriuosly - my only gapless expereince is with lots of sleeved motors....

944kid

Aluminum + Silicon(e?) What Porsche made the block out of. But I'm pretty sure you knew that, so this response is for teh n00bs.

Laust Pedersen

So are the Total Seal’s gapless top rings available for our cars now?

About half a year after they introduced gapless top rings, I talked to them and sent them a (new) Goetze top ring to convert to their gapless design. Unfortunately it came back all chipped up (seen under a microscope). It was too hard for their machine to cut. In spite of being familiar with the potential fluttering problem I used their gapless 2nd ring instead without problems for maybe 1000 miles before my white car for other reasons cracked a cylinder.

Laust

tommo951

Yes Chris, they are supplying a special design top ring for turbo applications.
Its a shame that JE don't see fit to comment on them and continue to supply Federal Mogul ringsets

Chris White

Yeah, JE does not like Total Seal - its becasue of business reasons not technical ones!

tommo951

Now got the rings and just wondered if anybody else had now gained any experience of these rings

nick_968

What bore material are you using Tom? I never heard of anyone using them on alusil....or do you have the perfect bore nicosil sleeves?

Alpine951

I had read on here in the past that some had used the total seal for ring #2.

968workaholic

The only negative I have heard is that the total seal rings wear the cylinder walls out faster because of the pressure of the ring against it. Other than that they work really well.

Chris White

I would be surprised if it were because of the tension – they have less tension than most traditional rings.
I have heard some ‘opinions’ that the better seal of the #2 ring may strip the oil of the wall and cause more wear at the #1 ring….but I haven’t seen that in any application. Keep in mind that I use them on sleeved engines and the steel in the Darton sleeves is really hard (really really hard – the CNC operator hates to see me show up!)

2bridges

Hey tommo951 - suspect you know this, but just a heads up.

Zero gap rings I have used (not 944) are ususally made "long" and have to be fitted. installing without propper fitting will deform the ring in the bore and very likely damage the cylinder and piston.

Chris White

Yep - always check the gap...trust but verify!