A.Wayne

+1

porshhhh951

im not trying to complain about anything. I think its great what they did and are doing. I think pushing the envelope is what its all about. IF my post didn't sound supportive im sorry. It certainly was ment to me.

I think this is great.

RPHARRIS

I didn't mean to be rude or insulting. The results were surprising to me and I was expressing my take on them. I think it's ok to give encouragement by saying that I expect someone to improve greatly.

Under Pressure Performance

A.WAYNE, 95ONE,

That is cool, we can agree to disagree - And I can see how many would be shocked with the statements I have made, but consider this, I am not green to these cars, nor am I green to drag racing these cars. That said, there is no bench racing on my part, I am simply stating what (I believe) the results would be based on years of my personal drag racing experience the collective experience of several friends that continue to drag race these cars.

No that this is what you guys are doing, but based on some times and mph that others have posted, certainly others have either pulled up an online drag racing calculator, or used a drag racing slide rule to get a theoretical best ET given a car's weight, horsepower, and a few other parameters, but there is a huge difference between the theoretical and the real world.

Heck according to one online drag racing calculator, ST should be close to 146mph and crossing the line at just under 9 seconds, but that is simply not going to happen in any 951 set up the way these two cars are. Nor will TMS get his 10.9 at 129mph that the calculator predicts - Just not gonna happen.

OK, so "could" it happen in utopia? Well, that is what the online calculators and the slide rules say, but I doubt either car could realistically break into the low 11's without breaking anything.

Perhaps in my last post I was misunderstood? - I am not saying that ST "should" not be faster than TMS, but if they each keep things EXACTLY as they ran that day, with the only change being ST on DR's, then I am relatively confident TMS would still pull out a quicker ET, even if only marginally so. Would I like to see ST bang out a 10 second pass at 140mph, sure, but I am pretty sure even he acknowledges that this would be unlikely, and ultimately a costly proposition.

Again, I am talking about the real world here, not just theoretical best case scenarios. That said, in the real world, both these guys have the ability to pull out a relatively close 60' time, and at best it will be somewhere in the 1.85 area crossing fingers not to break anything. That leaves the rest of the run to the curve and width of the powerband - It is really quite simple. Tool makes way more power than TMS up top, but TMS has a decent overall powerband and his powerband works throughout the RPM range between shift points. Again, they are two different cars and yeild two different results - Like I said, one is quick, one is fast. The gap can be bridged a bit, no doubt, but they are still covering just 1/4 mile, and to look at peak power numbers alone to predict an ET or a race result simply don't work in the real world.

Sorry if what I am trying to convey is being misinterpreted, but I do know what I am talking about, even if it does not seem like it - LOL So, in an effort to clear the air I will say this... Yes, ST's car in a perfect world, set up for drag racing, with bulletproof axles, proper gearing, drag radials, a few tweaks here and there, and some practice to get a good launch SHOULD beat TMS hands down - In that regard I agree. BUT as I have said so many times before, all things being equal, other than ST on DR's, my money would still be on TMS. Does that mean that I don't think ST's car should win? - NO, not at all. In fact, it should, BUT if he ran the car EXACTLY as he did that day, but just on a DR, I still would bet TMS would still cross the line first.

There are many reasons for this, and I could go on and on about it, but for now I will just say that regardless what you do in the tire department, these cars will either break a part, or break traction WAY before either will come close to any of the theoretical best times that any calculator will produce, and that is the hard truth.

Consider this, most drag racing calculators give results based on straight physics. The more advanced ones will even factor in CD, frontal area, rolling resistance, altitude, temperature, track temperature, and tire type. The one I use even allows me to enter raw dyno data, or manually input the HP/TQ curve to produce a result - And even though this software does the best job of predicting the result, it is still a best case scenario. It will estimate wheel spin based on tire choice, and will even correct for a headwind, but even with all those considerations, it still gets the numbers wrong for these cars.

In closing, I apologize if any of what I said/say in any of my posts in this thread comes across any way other than the way I intend - The written word is often misinterpreted (at least mine anyway - lol) It is not my intent to disparrage anyone, nor is it my intent to preach. My only intent is to offer what I, and those around me, have learned about drag racing these cars, exposing the inherent deficiencies of these cars (944T's) when it comes to drag racing.

That said, other than the work I have done on TMS's car, it really don't matter to me who would have won, but I knew beforehand who was going to. Could the results have been any different, not that day. Will the results be different round two? Could very well be. That is up to ST, and what he does to get his car hooking up and working where it needs to.

If he changes more than just tires, my money might move to another player. But I would really love to see round two with Tool's car set up exactly the same way (turbo, boost, engine, suspension... everything) with the only difference being DR's - I bet THAT would be a GREAT race. If Tool was spinning as much as he says, then the race would be closer than I initially stated. Both cars would likely be in the very low 12's, perhaps very high 11 range, with TMS coming out ahead in the first 450 feet, then Tool reeling him in all the way to the finish.

To show my confidence, I am willing to respectfully wager a genuine Coca-Cola Classic on TMS against anyone who thinks differently.

Thanks for reading.

lart951

this thread confirms what I have said in the past, "944 turbo's suck majorly for drag racing" 12.25@115 that's gay, my 98 years old grandma can do that in my 07 mustang gt. 4 years ago talking about drag racing on this forum brought serious flaming upon the poster, now wth is this? bunch of wannabe drag racers with 944 turbos, you guys make me sick I am out of the 951 scene.

fwb42

Scott,I don't feel that anyone needs to apoligize to anyone. This is a first of its kind for the forum and is creating a lot of discussion.Isn't this what this suite is for. Opions,discussion and hopefully facts,that will benefit everyone. Keep it up guys!!! FRED

tommo951

The thread started when TMS offered ST outside.
The challenge was taken up, postponed and then the race was held.
TMS won.... end of story.
yes tool would have been as well running on ice tyres (tires for you guys in USA) but that is his problem and he has come out and admiited as much with good grace.
The rest is just speculation

95ONE

I don't think the 951's suck at drag racing lart.... Its the 951 Drivers!
...

This of course includes myself at the moment.

We'll get better. But yeah, the 951 makes it very difficult to get the launch right. Just doesn't mean it can't be done! Most of us are fairly new at launching these cars. Practice.. We'll get it. And make a solid showing in the Car world. Then.... After we've proven that. We'll go back to the road course and Dominate. .... Some more.

lart951

PMS won what? just because tool is a old fart and doesn't have the experience and reaction of tms in Dfag racing. Tool's car at 124mph tool's car was out accelerating tms's. I fail to see anybody winning out of something as stupid as dfag racing.


You guys are lame.

tommo951

Calm down Lart, you will have a coronary. Guys at your age should watch their blood pressure!
It was a standing quarter mile race, you can only win the competition you are in at the time mate.
If it was on a race track I think we know what the result would be, that is unless Tool is the old fart you say......... Controversial!!!

Ian Carr

this thread is lame.

Tms951

I am tired of reading your stupid ****. If you don't like drag racing fine, that however is not what this thread is about. The thing that would make the most sense would be if you started a thread titled "Larts stupid comments" and then you will have your own little place to go wild and no one will have to read it. If you understood drag racing you would know it is not about who accelerated hardest at a certain point. It is about who gets accross the line first after the light turns green, as it turns out I did both races.


If you think this thread is lame I would sugest you stop reading it and stop posting on it.

lart951

Omg, the little champion is upset, dude you didn't win s%$t, are you for real. So I guess in your narrow little mind you won,

You crossed the line first 9 miles per hour slower,

Plus you were on slicks freaking cheater.

tommo951

Come on Lart, we know you and tool have a "special" relationship.
But TMS is right. Tools car was undrivable over quarter of a mile?? Fair?
Yes whem it finally got the power down it was awesome
Tool has added a lot to this forum and nobody is dissing him. He has helped me with quite a bit directly and indirectly.Come on they have even arranged a rematch. There does not seem to be any bad blood between Tool and TMS!
Why are you having such a problem about it?
It was only like the old first away from the lights competition except in safer surroundings.

lart951

check this out

plus tms was on slicks. Tool trapped over 120mph , if I was tms I would have said, I was lucky to cross the line first, key word "LUCKY"

the tools's car is faster no doubt with proper tires and a "REAL" driver behind the wheel the outcome would have been different, I personally knew the tool was going to fail at the 1/4 mile by seen the way he took off on that video of his launch.