why do so many people in the 951 community hate other cars?
02-26-2007, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Himsel
Wow, there are a bunch of pissed off people here over nothing. Each of us has the right to like/dislike other cars and I really find it amusing when a 17 year old chimes in to tell me/us how great his 951 is and however it’s the best car on the planet. However, Lart can afford other vehicles, has other vehicles, and probably has a good reason why the 951 is his favorite. Let me compare my 944/51/Z06 a bit
My 944 is nothing but transportation that has a comfortable driving position and decent handling, but lacks power and braking and because of it’s age (84) is a maintenance hound despite being one of the finest 944’s I’ve ever seen. You still have to listen for every creak, moan, and groan because it’s a 23 year old car. The lack of power and brakes is really noticeable when you have to merge onto a freeway, accelerate out of a dangerous situation, or stop short. You really have to work at it to get it to accelerate and be in the right gear and rev it up a bit. Even though just about everything on it has been replaced, you still regularly have things that go bad. Just recently a CV started clicking, the sun visor clip broke, and the passenger’s side window switch stopped working. The month before that the cheesehead that holds the mirror’s base together vibrated it’s way loose, the Idle control motor failed, and the TPS went bad. Really minor stuff but with a 23 year old car it is recurring and I am a fanatic about my vehicles and make sure that every little thing gets repaired promptly.
That leads to my 951 which I purchased about 7 years ago for about 10K with 70K miles on it. The car was in beautiful condition and just need a good cleaning and buffing. However, when you really start to look at these cars you realize that every seal is in need of replacement, the vacuum lines are rock hard, you should be on third set of shocks/struts, and things will start to fail. For a few hundred dollars you can get really impressive power that will be on par with a lot of current vehicles to a certain degree. A FRESH 951 will run close to a lot of modern vehicles. Emphasis is on fresh. There is a myth out there that someone who dumped 10K on a 89 951 with the original Koni’s or earlier cars with Boge’s, stock pads, 20 year old bushings, 100K mile radiators, can run with these modern cars all day long and that’s not the case at all. It may do it from time to time but you can’t expect it of wear items that are 20 years old. However, my perspective is like many other guys such as Lart, Ski, ST, and a dozen others who believe a lightly modified and well maintained (the later being somewhat expensive) 951 can run with the modern “over achievers” successfully. Maintenance is the key here and that doesn’t make the 951 as reasonable of a performance choice for everyone any more.
One other aspect that is often overlooked is the 951 is not an every man’s car. For example, dump a guy who drives a mustang, corvette, or WRX for that matter into a 951 and it is very likely he will be slow. The 951 is more of a driver’s car and you have to know what gear to keep it in, how to keep it in that sweet spot, and how to modulate on/off boost on the racetrack to get the car to turn. Even on the street you have to slip the clutch a bit just starting from roll otherwise it’s a dog from idle to about 2300 RPM’s. Once you master this the 951 is a very fast car. For example, If my wife drives my 951 and I drive my ZO6, I will kill her in virtually any range (straight line). However, I don’t care how good of a driver you are in my Z06, in a straight line with me driving my 951 you won’t have a chance in hell from a 20mph roll. It won’t even be close as my 951 will eat a stock (c5) ZO6 for lunch from 20 mph on. On the race track, that’s a different story.
My 951 has some really cool stuff on it and you would be surprised how closely some of the stuff matches up to the ZO6 stock. I have a Vitesse stage 2, home ported head (really just a clean-up and port match job), MAF, 3” exhaust, cup clutch, Fidanza, and a dozen other items that make HP. On the Suspension side I have Charlie arms, big reds, 30mm ft sway bar, welt rear, a mixture of delrin, urethane, and poly bronze bushings, 18 x 10 & 9 CCW’s with tires to fill them out, escort cup shocks, 350lb ft springs, 300 rear (stock t-bars), camber plates, and a ton of other things that make this a well equipped street/track car. If you disagree with me about my mods please let me know but not much of this car is untouched and nothing is considered extreme nor mild. Oh yeah, I have a 3.0L that is going in next.
My 2002 ZO6, bone stock, weighs in at 3080 without drive and just under ½ tank of gas, comes with 10.5 and 9.5” wheels, 325mm ft rotors, 305mm rears, 30mm fr sway bars 23.6 rear, 650In/lb front springs (leaf) 680 rear, 45mm shock pistons (made by Boge for GM), 720 n-mm/deg static stiffness, titanium exhaust, as well as ABS, modern air bags, and an impressive traction control system and variable steering. With just a set of 1 3/4” long tube headers, x-pipe, a simple air box mod, and a retune you will put down 400ft/lbs and in the high 390’s Hp to the wheels. All of this on 91 pump gas in a car that will run on a track for 6 to 8 hours a day in 100 degree weather with the AC on. Oh yeah, you can get this for about 30K now days and I see about 19MPG around town and average about 28 on the freeway. Considering how much money I, and many of us, have tied up in our cars this is a screaming value, like it or not. Maintenance? Well, these cars are a joke to work on and if it takes you an hour to change the water pump you have issues. Reliability? Everyone who knows me I don’t rub my car with a diaper and everything I own sees the track (except for the navigator) and the ZO6 in 5 years and 21K has seen 1 set of tires, frequent fluid changes, and a new battery……… That’s it. Talk all the **** you want but there’s not another car out there giving the same value.
Driving impressions? I love the 951 because you really feel connected to the road. You have to work to make the car move but it is very rewarding, shifts like a dream, has a great driver’s position, a ton of visibility, is one of the most nimble vehicles I have ever driven, and the seating is great. The 951 is sooooooo 80’s but that’s what I love about it. The corvette on the other hand is very easy to drive fast and at the limit. It just goes wherever you point it and throttle modulation and rotation is a snap. This car is very responsive to driver’s inputs and VERY predictable. It’s also a great car for daily driving (this is what I drive mostly) and reliability is outstanding for a pushrod motor with a 6500 rev limiter (that I bounce off of frequently). The interior is very no-frills, the seats are cheap, and because of the low seating position and track width, steering it is kind of like screwing a fat lady………meaning it seems like more work then it really is and stock it shifts like a dump truck. I hate the way the cars looks but I didn’t buy it for the emblem……..
My 944 is nothing but transportation that has a comfortable driving position and decent handling, but lacks power and braking and because of it’s age (84) is a maintenance hound despite being one of the finest 944’s I’ve ever seen. You still have to listen for every creak, moan, and groan because it’s a 23 year old car. The lack of power and brakes is really noticeable when you have to merge onto a freeway, accelerate out of a dangerous situation, or stop short. You really have to work at it to get it to accelerate and be in the right gear and rev it up a bit. Even though just about everything on it has been replaced, you still regularly have things that go bad. Just recently a CV started clicking, the sun visor clip broke, and the passenger’s side window switch stopped working. The month before that the cheesehead that holds the mirror’s base together vibrated it’s way loose, the Idle control motor failed, and the TPS went bad. Really minor stuff but with a 23 year old car it is recurring and I am a fanatic about my vehicles and make sure that every little thing gets repaired promptly.
That leads to my 951 which I purchased about 7 years ago for about 10K with 70K miles on it. The car was in beautiful condition and just need a good cleaning and buffing. However, when you really start to look at these cars you realize that every seal is in need of replacement, the vacuum lines are rock hard, you should be on third set of shocks/struts, and things will start to fail. For a few hundred dollars you can get really impressive power that will be on par with a lot of current vehicles to a certain degree. A FRESH 951 will run close to a lot of modern vehicles. Emphasis is on fresh. There is a myth out there that someone who dumped 10K on a 89 951 with the original Koni’s or earlier cars with Boge’s, stock pads, 20 year old bushings, 100K mile radiators, can run with these modern cars all day long and that’s not the case at all. It may do it from time to time but you can’t expect it of wear items that are 20 years old. However, my perspective is like many other guys such as Lart, Ski, ST, and a dozen others who believe a lightly modified and well maintained (the later being somewhat expensive) 951 can run with the modern “over achievers” successfully. Maintenance is the key here and that doesn’t make the 951 as reasonable of a performance choice for everyone any more.
One other aspect that is often overlooked is the 951 is not an every man’s car. For example, dump a guy who drives a mustang, corvette, or WRX for that matter into a 951 and it is very likely he will be slow. The 951 is more of a driver’s car and you have to know what gear to keep it in, how to keep it in that sweet spot, and how to modulate on/off boost on the racetrack to get the car to turn. Even on the street you have to slip the clutch a bit just starting from roll otherwise it’s a dog from idle to about 2300 RPM’s. Once you master this the 951 is a very fast car. For example, If my wife drives my 951 and I drive my ZO6, I will kill her in virtually any range (straight line). However, I don’t care how good of a driver you are in my Z06, in a straight line with me driving my 951 you won’t have a chance in hell from a 20mph roll. It won’t even be close as my 951 will eat a stock (c5) ZO6 for lunch from 20 mph on. On the race track, that’s a different story.
My 951 has some really cool stuff on it and you would be surprised how closely some of the stuff matches up to the ZO6 stock. I have a Vitesse stage 2, home ported head (really just a clean-up and port match job), MAF, 3” exhaust, cup clutch, Fidanza, and a dozen other items that make HP. On the Suspension side I have Charlie arms, big reds, 30mm ft sway bar, welt rear, a mixture of delrin, urethane, and poly bronze bushings, 18 x 10 & 9 CCW’s with tires to fill them out, escort cup shocks, 350lb ft springs, 300 rear (stock t-bars), camber plates, and a ton of other things that make this a well equipped street/track car. If you disagree with me about my mods please let me know but not much of this car is untouched and nothing is considered extreme nor mild. Oh yeah, I have a 3.0L that is going in next.
My 2002 ZO6, bone stock, weighs in at 3080 without drive and just under ½ tank of gas, comes with 10.5 and 9.5” wheels, 325mm ft rotors, 305mm rears, 30mm fr sway bars 23.6 rear, 650In/lb front springs (leaf) 680 rear, 45mm shock pistons (made by Boge for GM), 720 n-mm/deg static stiffness, titanium exhaust, as well as ABS, modern air bags, and an impressive traction control system and variable steering. With just a set of 1 3/4” long tube headers, x-pipe, a simple air box mod, and a retune you will put down 400ft/lbs and in the high 390’s Hp to the wheels. All of this on 91 pump gas in a car that will run on a track for 6 to 8 hours a day in 100 degree weather with the AC on. Oh yeah, you can get this for about 30K now days and I see about 19MPG around town and average about 28 on the freeway. Considering how much money I, and many of us, have tied up in our cars this is a screaming value, like it or not. Maintenance? Well, these cars are a joke to work on and if it takes you an hour to change the water pump you have issues. Reliability? Everyone who knows me I don’t rub my car with a diaper and everything I own sees the track (except for the navigator) and the ZO6 in 5 years and 21K has seen 1 set of tires, frequent fluid changes, and a new battery……… That’s it. Talk all the **** you want but there’s not another car out there giving the same value.
Driving impressions? I love the 951 because you really feel connected to the road. You have to work to make the car move but it is very rewarding, shifts like a dream, has a great driver’s position, a ton of visibility, is one of the most nimble vehicles I have ever driven, and the seating is great. The 951 is sooooooo 80’s but that’s what I love about it. The corvette on the other hand is very easy to drive fast and at the limit. It just goes wherever you point it and throttle modulation and rotation is a snap. This car is very responsive to driver’s inputs and VERY predictable. It’s also a great car for daily driving (this is what I drive mostly) and reliability is outstanding for a pushrod motor with a 6500 rev limiter (that I bounce off of frequently). The interior is very no-frills, the seats are cheap, and because of the low seating position and track width, steering it is kind of like screwing a fat lady………meaning it seems like more work then it really is and stock it shifts like a dump truck. I hate the way the cars looks but I didn’t buy it for the emblem……..
02-26-2007, 05:34 PM
#77
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"Is a vette a sports car or a fast car? A sports car is a light, nimble and quick car. Not a huge monster that can move fast in a line.
Dont get me wrong v06's are sweet cars just not what i like.
Cmon guys a porsche is a porsche there really is no comparing it. If you want a whal....ahem.... shark then get a 928 if you want a lion then get a 951. We should get a 944 mascot..."
That was posted earlier, from what I read the vette is only fast in a straight line? Come on was he joking or just making an ignorant comment?
Dont get me wrong v06's are sweet cars just not what i like.
Cmon guys a porsche is a porsche there really is no comparing it. If you want a whal....ahem.... shark then get a 928 if you want a lion then get a 951. We should get a 944 mascot..."
That was posted earlier, from what I read the vette is only fast in a straight line? Come on was he joking or just making an ignorant comment?
02-26-2007, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Colin Emerson
"Is a vette a sports car or a fast car? A sports car is a light, nimble and quick car. Not a huge monster that can move fast in a line.
Dont get me wrong v06's are sweet cars just not what i like.
Cmon guys a porsche is a porsche there really is no comparing it. If you want a whal....ahem.... shark then get a 928 if you want a lion then get a 951. We should get a 944 mascot..."
That was posted earlier, from what I read the vette is only fast in a straight line? Come on was he joking or just making an ignorant comment?
Dont get me wrong v06's are sweet cars just not what i like.
Cmon guys a porsche is a porsche there really is no comparing it. If you want a whal....ahem.... shark then get a 928 if you want a lion then get a 951. We should get a 944 mascot..."
That was posted earlier, from what I read the vette is only fast in a straight line? Come on was he joking or just making an ignorant comment?
02-26-2007, 05:38 PM
#79
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Originally Posted by Fishey
I honestly get great joy in pointing out flaws in other peoples cars expecially when they argue about it and are wrong. Its like a challenge you see who can make there car look better by being internet warriors. This usually leads to conflict and drama and I happen to enjoy both.
if it was someone I didn't know I would laugh and not care less. You telling me my dyno was at 22psi and this and that arguing with me about my own damn car is stupid.
obviously you enjoy such conversations.....I however don't. Like I said normally I would just laugh but, when it comes from a friend I certainly don't. Go back and read some of you're posts its like you are arguing just to argue with me.
All thats going to do is **** me off. More over you should see some of the pm's and im's i've gotten today from listers encouraging this thread and the likes.
Obviously I guess alot of people feel the same way I do...they just don't care to express it openly and cause conflict. If you don't like v8's thats fine but, don't make blanket slandering comments about them and not expect someone to take offense.
It makes you look like you wanna argue and fight for the sake of arguing. That makes you look childish. I was very hurt by some of the things you have said as of late. And now in the other thread you are arguing with me about my own damn car.....as if I don't know what power I make at what boost level and ****.
its quite dumb. Glad you're having fun though...im just not
02-26-2007, 05:41 PM
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I actually didn't think he was being sarcastic, I thought he was saying that the new vettes were not nimble.....that they could not be light and quick like a 951? Anyone else see it that way? So I guess I am an idiot? Thanks Lart, for your kind words
02-26-2007, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Colin Emerson
I actually didn't think he was being sarcastic, I thought he was saying that the new vettes were not nimble.....that they could not be light and quick like a 951? Anyone else see it that way? So I guess I am an idiot? Thanks Lart, for your kind words
but, comments like that are to be expected I suppose.
lart if aparently just playing around and having fun. Great for him.
02-26-2007, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SamGrant951
like i said normally I wouldn't care. When it comes from a friend at me over and over again....i care.
02-26-2007, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Colin Emerson
I actually didn't think he was being sarcastic, I thought he was saying that the new vettes were not nimble.....that they could not be light and quick like a 951? Anyone else see it that way? So I guess I am an idiot? Thanks Lart, for your kind words
02-26-2007, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by lart951
Well, not a common idiot but a idiot with class since you drive a Porsche, lol . Just kidding, I am becoming a internet thug just like John calling everybody stupid and ignorant, lol.
please go address the other thread and argue with me about my car so more.
02-26-2007, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by porshhhh951
nope not calling everyone stupid and ignorant. You can like what you like. When you make slandering comments is when you are ignorant and stupid.
please go address the other thread and argue with me about my car so more.
please go address the other thread and argue with me about my car so more.
02-26-2007, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by lart951
Jeremy, so the picture in your avatar the corvette with the small ***** is not a joke? I didn't think you owned a z06, lol.
My **** doesn't hit the floor when I lay on my stomach! If you can't laugh at yourself then who can you laugh at.Truth be told, I hate 85% of Corvette owners because they have an ego almost as big as the *** of the C5 cars. That's just what happend when you get 4 consecutive generations of Chevy only owners. I am ruthless on the vette boards as well. When a guy in an automatic c-5 tells me how quick his car is and how great Chevy is. I politely ask him if he want to get his *** handed to him by a 20 year old 2.5L VW...... however I need good an anit-Porsche avatar for there...
02-26-2007, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Himsel
Not a joke My **** doesn't hit the floor when I lay on my stomach! If you can't laugh at yourself then who can you laugh at.
Truth be told, I hate 85% of Corvette owners because they have an ego almost as big as the *** of the C5 cars. That's just what happend when you get 4 consecutive generations of Chevy only owners. I am ruthless on the vette boards as well. When a guy in an automatic c-5 tells me how quick his car is and how great Chevy is. I politely ask him if he want to get his *** handed to him by a 20 year old 2.5L VW...... however I need good an anit-Porsche avatar for there...
My **** doesn't hit the floor when I lay on my stomach! If you can't laugh at yourself then who can you laugh at.Truth be told, I hate 85% of Corvette owners because they have an ego almost as big as the *** of the C5 cars. That's just what happend when you get 4 consecutive generations of Chevy only owners. I am ruthless on the vette boards as well. When a guy in an automatic c-5 tells me how quick his car is and how great Chevy is. I politely ask him if he want to get his *** handed to him by a 20 year old 2.5L VW...... however I need good an anit-Porsche avatar for there...
show him my vid lart posted in the other thread. he might like it
02-26-2007, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by porshhhh951
still waiting on this crap.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...6&goto=newpost
02-26-2007, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Himsel
Not a joke My **** doesn't hit the floor when I lay on my stomach! If you can't laugh at yourself then who can you laugh at.
Truth be told, I hate 85% of Corvette owners because they have an ego almost as big as the *** of the C5 cars. That's just what happend when you get 4 consecutive generations of Chevy only owners. I am ruthless on the vette boards as well. When a guy in an automatic c-5 tells me how quick his car is and how great Chevy is. I politely ask him if he want to get his *** handed to him by a 20 year old 2.5L VW...... however I need good an anit-Porsche avatar for there...
My **** doesn't hit the floor when I lay on my stomach! If you can't laugh at yourself then who can you laugh at.Truth be told, I hate 85% of Corvette owners because they have an ego almost as big as the *** of the C5 cars. That's just what happend when you get 4 consecutive generations of Chevy only owners. I am ruthless on the vette boards as well. When a guy in an automatic c-5 tells me how quick his car is and how great Chevy is. I politely ask him if he want to get his *** handed to him by a 20 year old 2.5L VW...... however I need good an anit-Porsche avatar for there...