Matthew951

Bare with me guys, I know this is a wide topic of discussion, but I really haven’t found a clear answer to my question so far. Basically I need new suspension in my car, as it’s getting really soft. So my options are replacing with stock parts, or some sort of coil-over setup. I have found 3 main company's with coil-overs for our cars:

Bilstein Escort Cup Coil-overs
Koni Coil-overs
Leda Coil-overs

My question is what setup is 'better'? I don’t believe I've been in a car with any of these, so I cannot decide from experience. I am sure there is someone out there that has driven a car with at least two of these setups that would be able to give some feedback. Like most of us here, my car is used mainly for the street, with hopefully the start to occasional autocross and driver Ed events.

I believe I was told that Leda coil-overs were a little to aggressive for everyday street use, but I am not sure, how is the Escort Cup setup on the street? It seems like Koni is much more popular, but that could also be that I think it’s the cheapest setup, so it probably is the best price/performance gained.

I don’t want to go with a suspension setup that is merely "okay" for the track, if I am going to spend the money, I want a setup that will really work for everything I use the car for, including the autocross. I think going with a stock setup is out of the question, but it could be a viable option. But my main questions are about the coil-over setups, if anyone can give me feedback on these setups compared, that would be great. I have been trying to decide on a suspension setup since last summer and am not much closer to a decision now then I was then.

Thank again, and sorry to bring up another suspension thread, but I haven’t seen one directed to product comparison.

Matt

EDIT:
I didn’t mention one thing, I am planning to keep the torsion bars on, but obviously removing them could be an option, but I would rather keep them one, as the car was designed to have them.

Matthew951

No one has any input on the suspension? I am trying to get info on what would be the best route to go. I talked with a mechanic saying the Leda would be too much for street, but I hear about people running them on the street all the time. So I am not sure who to believe. If anyone uses the Leda, Bilstein, or Koni full coil over systems, please give me some input on what to expect ride performance, whether it is over your stock set-up, or over a different setup you have used or driven with.

Just give me some feedback on what you all would suggest. I would like somewhere around 300# springs, as I have been told that’s the best all around spring rating, as its not to hard for street, and not to soft for the track. So that’s about what I am looking at.

Thanks,
Matt

RogueM3

From a BMW standpoint...Leda are not too stiff for the street. Why were you told this?

I believe the ones most commonly used are 24 way adjustable and can be made to suit whatever driving needs you may have. Suspensions are really a matter of comfort and what it is that you are willing to live with...some may call the 500# spring on my M3 too stiff for the street...but I love them.

I know this isnt too informative but I thought the limited info I have might be somewhat useful..

-Richard

hmd

Matt,

I have 968 M030 Koni coil-over with 250lb Eichbach springs at the front and the 030 helper springs at the rear + 30 mm front swaybar and 19mm adj. rear swaybars. I use my car mostly for club track events and occasionally for street. The suspension is very compliance for street and v.good on the track, I am sure if I was chasing 1/10ths there may be better suspension setup out there for the track.

Matthew951

Thanks for the info - the 24-way adjustable is just the set-up I was looking into. To me the car is a sports car, it’s not supposed to ride like a Cadillac, and so I expect the suspension to be stiff. I am sure there is a point that is "too stiff" for the street, but I think my opinion differs from some people, as I don’t think 300+# springs wouldn’t be to stiff for street driving. But again, that’s just my opinion.

Any and all suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks again guys

ehall

Well Matthew,
I didn't realize that someone was reading my mind, until I read your post. I'm in exactly the same position as you are in regards to suspension, and upgrade questions. I won't try to answer your questions specifically, but instead I'll point you in a few directions. For straight info on Leda's, you can tlak with Chris White, at www.944enhancement.com, or send him an email via Rennlist. He's pretty well known on the board as a straight shooter, and he both races and builds our cars for the track as well as the street. I will tell you that he is a Leda distributor, but I will also tell you that I'm in the process of talking to him about my own street car needs. I've also talked to Karl, at Racer's Edge. I believe that they are the primary importer in the U.S. I know Karl races a 944, with Leda's, and is pretty successful. He emailed me back quickly, with a good amount of info. So, why am I going to Chris White? I'm doing so because of his presence here, and the many posts of his, from which I have learned so much. Will I go with Leda's? I still don't know. As far as cost, You're looking at about 2300.00, at your door, with everything you need to install.
As for Koni's, call or email Paragon. They are a site sponsor, and the best available source for EVERYTHING Koni. They are a primary distributor.They work very extensively with our cars, and I think Skip Grehan, at Paragon, drives one himself. I've also been in contact with them extensively. They gave me a complete work up, and break down of all of the parts that I would need to go 4 way coil over, or just front. BTW they recommend keeping your T-Bars. For what it's worth, though they are a PITA to reindex, how often do you plan to do that? Also, I think if Porsche thought that a straight rear coil over was the best for an endurance racing chassis, they wouldn't have put T-Bars in there. I'll stick with them, especially because my car is for the street, and that is more brutal than a well paved track. In terms of cost, I priced out front, back, M030 sways, front and back, new front wheel bearings, 968 castor blocks, 2 new front strut mounts, and a few other extras, and I came out under 3k in costs. So, yes, Koni's are a very good upgrade/price. (Just the Koni's and neccessesities would run right at 1900.00,with T-BAR delete, much less without rear coil overs, and stiffer T-BArs, or Rear coilovers, and upgraded T-bars. about 1750.00)
As far as Escort Cups go, they are racing dampers. They'll be VERY stiff. They will probably be underutilized in day to day driving, and will require a pretty stiff spring. From the info that I've been able to gather, they would need more than 300# springs to be well utlized. It's really a personal preference with suspension stiffness. They are height adjustable but not rebound adjustable. They are what they are. There's nothing wrong with them at all, and you'll probably never need to upgrade, but you'll need to replace the spring plate bushings, to something like a Delrin.That said, Paragon can get you the complete set up for basically the same price as Leda's, with the upgraded Racer's Edge hard ware, pretty much ready to install.
Do a good search for corresponding threads. You'll find a few hard core guys running Escorts. You'll find a ton of guys running Koni's. You'll only find a very few running Leda's. Of those, I only found one that was doing so, and he wasn't happy. However, as I said, you will find very few, so you can't really take an accurate sampling from that. You also can never get a real handle on how the communication was between the Vendor, and the buying driver. If I've found anything, it is that the communication with the supplier is the key. You need to be VERY specific about what you are going to do with your car, the conditions of the roads that you frequent, your plans for wheels and brakes, down the road, and your preference for how you want your driving experience.
To give you an idea, my front rt strut is binding, and the left is about as useful as a rubberband around a kids braces. As such, my "ride experience" is like riding a 70's era skate board, on my butt, over belgian cobblestones. Therfore, stiff, really stiff, would still be an improvement. I'm likely to be thrilled either way.
Here are some contact email addresses. skip@paragon-products.com
enhancement944@earthlink.com Chris White
I'm sure that Chris will be straight with you in his evaluation of Koni's and Bilstien's.

I hope that points you in some direction. I would stick to Rennlisters, to do business with. All of the guys that I mentioned are sponsors, and heavy contributors to the community. They have a great deal vested in their professional reputations. Good Luck E.

Matthew951

ehall -

Thanks for all the info, I will definatly get a hold of Chris about the Leda's. I think becuase of the 24-way ajustable setting, it'll make the car easily streetable, but still give the car plenty of track performance.

Again, thanks for the info
Matt

Chris White

I like the Ledas.....

Chris White

Sorry I couldn't resist after the previous posts...

Darius Juca

If youre serious about the track......Bilstein!!!!!I had them on my 930...there's a reason Porsche uses them in racing.....Leda's are nice too.....also popular in mustang crowd..nice for street also...Koni unless you spen serious money.....Track good ..street better