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Just curious, why do so many cars have that knee bar on the outside of the dash? I realze everyone sits differently in the car but those things look seriously scary to the knees.. I put mine behind the dash just for that reason. I do enjoy being able to walk... I thought that the dash is padded for a reason.
Beats me, it's as if some want to keep the entire dash per a street car but you technically shouldn't be driving a caged car on the street anyway.
I like the factory look of the dash but I cut the entire lower half off.
My bar supports the steering column and has a welded pad and a bracket that minimizes the chances that a serious frontal pushed the steering shaft toward the driver.
The thing that always worries me the most (doubt I'll change our current cages but will incorporate a preventative measure in future versions) is an unavoidable piece of track debris that would tear through the floor under the driver's seat.
I've had two cages tested in a couple of serious incidents. Both cars totaled even though I managed to bring one back from the dead.
Driver (my son) walked away both times without a scratch, no broken welds, no torn mounts, etc.
The first hit a concrete wall so hard that chunks of concrete were under the rim/tire bead and the tires still held air.
The second of the two incidents totaled out two separate other cars, one being an 80 911 that nearly tore the door post off.
nice work on the extensions, do they feel any different? I've got a Tilton floor mount pedals that i'll be installing. As it's an auto chassis, makes it easier going manual too.
How are you guys mounting your seats?
The 1/8" thick steel seems ideal. Did some mocking up. Totally happy with this process so far. The bolt patterns are perfectly compatible (16" Porsche width vs 13.5" Sparco bottom mount width). I'll have enough room for washers & sockets when installing seat to car.
The 1/8" thick steel seems ideal. Did some mocking up. Totally happy with this process so far. The bolt patterns are perfectly compatible (16" Porsche width vs 13.5" Sparco bottom mount width). I'll have enough room for washers & sockets when installing seat to car.
nice! i did something complacently different. (see my thread) tried to keep it low as possible.
Just curious, why do so many cars have that knee bar on the outside of the dash? I realze everyone sits differently in the car but those things look seriously scary to the knees.. I put mine behind the dash just for that reason. I do enjoy being able to walk... I thought that the dash is padded for a reason.
GPA951-the answer isn't that simple. You're right physically were are all a bit different (a factor). But seat angle & seat height is also a factor. I sat in this RUF 911 & it was definitely a knee killer! Whereas on my 944 there is no way the knees or legs are hitting. If they did I'd add roll bar padding (no biggy). One factor is my 944 is a late model & I have retained the lower dash panels & padding. This combined with my new seat location which is rearward by more than 3" compared to stock positions my knees & my co driver's knees in a very safe zone (when the legs lift up as in a roll over, the shins hit the dash padding). Can't speak to other builds as I haven't sat in those cars.
Having said that, I agree for a proper race car, where A/C and heaters and other items are removed or modified and you want to save weight... behind the dash is the best. Hands down!
Holy sh*t dude... you went off the rails beefing up your cage from the original concept. Looks really good!! I suspect there are more regrets about under building then overbuilding.
I'm jealous of how you did your roof bars, with the slight bend to increase head room, if I were to redo mine, that would be one change for sure.
Also, how you included the extra bar to support the A-frame bar looks modern and s.o.l.i.d.
What is your plan to be able to weld the top of the joints when they approve?
What method of "coping" did you use to figure out your angles (to know where to cut the tubes)?
-One aspect (not sure if anyone has written about this), but something to consider; FIA handbook says regarding door bars for the lowest bar to essentially hug the sill as best as practical with as little bends as possible.
When considering this, 2 things cropped up in my small melon brain, as to WHY?
I suspect there possible 3 benefits:
-a lowered racing cars bumper might slip through underneath high mounted door bars.
-in a severe rollover, the sill bars can help prevent the a and b hoops from collapsing through the floor (by simply spreading the load via surface area).
-as with the rest of the cage, where recommending to keep the tubes very close to the body, this helps keep the unibody structure in tact, which in turns keeps the cage in tact.
Please don't get me wrong Paul, I think you cage looks pro... these are merely things to discuss at this stage of the build. But maybe look into the LATEST FIA manual and see if it's mandated to add a lower sill bar to the "X" door bars. I think it might be required this year, and if that's the case than CAMS might add it in a year or 2...
Yes,
GT3. Paulyy your Cage is looking great. We have the tubing fitted for the door bars along the bottom door jam, then additionally we are going to install X style door bars.
My CF guy finished the Doors just waiting for them to arrive so we could finalize the X bars. The other major concern we have is we are trying to keep the weight down.
We are using all 4130, .1.5" 095 for the essential structure secondary supports
1.25" .095 and then all the 1" is .065
Please keep us posted are your project. Attached are the doors.
Max
Holy sh*t dude... you went off the rails beefing up your cage from the original concept. Looks really good!! I suspect there are more regrets about under building then overbuilding.
I'm jealous of how you did your roof bars, with the slight bend to increase head room, if I were to redo mine, that would be one change for sure.
Also, how you included the extra bar to support the A-frame bar looks modern and s.o.l.i.d.
Thanks mate, This was the original plan with the cage, just never had all the bars together during photos.
The roof bars.. was a headache. To get them as they are, i made the long one in 3 pieces to get the bends right, used smaller tube inside to hold it all together, Then used it as a template to make the single piece.
We're not allowed to do the loop like you have done.
But yes, i am building it for a street class, but i know how i am and one day i'd probably take it to the next level and i know i'll have the essentials to support it. I honestly could have went with a half cage and be done with it.
Assuming you mean the front support bar, I didn't actually need it, But just in case i dont finish it till next year for what ever reason, i made it. But a lot of cages here have it so i thought it couldn't hurt.
Originally Posted by Noahs944
What is your plan to be able to weld the top of the joints when they approve?
What method of "coping" did you use to figure out your angles (to know where to cut the tubes)?
-One aspect (not sure if anyone has written about this), but something to consider; FIA handbook says regarding door bars for the lowest bar to essentially hug the sill as best as practical with as little bends as possible.
When considering this, 2 things cropped up in my small melon brain, as to WHY?
I suspect there possible 3 benefits:
-a lowered racing cars bumper might slip through underneath high mounted door bars.
-in a severe rollover, the sill bars can help prevent the a and b hoops from collapsing through the floor (by simply spreading the load via surface area).
-as with the rest of the cage, where recommending to keep the tubes very close to the body, this helps keep the unibody structure in tact, which in turns keeps the cage in tact.
Please don't get me wrong Paul, I think you cage looks pro... these are merely things to discuss at this stage of the build. But maybe look into the LATEST FIA manual and see if it's mandated to add a lower sill bar to the "X" door bars. I think it might be required this year, and if that's the case than CAMS might add it in a year or 2...
Keep up the wicked, wicked work my brothren.
As to welding it together, windscreen will come out and putting hole saw holes in the floor to drop the cage will gain enough room.
I have't gone though the FIA book, so im not sure. But there's no lower still bar in the book, it all depends on what exact cage you need i suppose. Im just going by what they recommend at the end of the day.
To get my angles, i used a digital protractor, got my angles, wrote them on paper and copied it for the other side.
So you understand what CAMS is (from their site)
The Confederation of Australian Motor Sport Limited (CAMS) has been the custodian of motor sport in Australia since 1953.
CAMS is the National Sporting Authority (ASN) for motor sport in Australia, delegated this responsibility by the Federation Internationale de’l Automobile (FIA).
The FIA aims to ensure that motor sport is conducted in accordance with the highest standards of safety, fairness and social responsibility and CAMS, together with in excess of 120 other ASNs in over 100 nations, are committed to carrying out the mission of the FIA.
Originally Posted by Max Energy
Yes,
GT3. Paulyy your Cage is looking great. We have the tubing fitted for the door bars along the bottom door jam, then additionally we are going to install X style door bars.
My CF guy finished the Doors just waiting for them to arrive so we could finalize the X bars. The other major concern we have is we are trying to keep the weight down.
We are using all 4130, .1.5" 095 for the essential structure secondary supports
1.25" .095 and then all the 1" is .065
Please keep us posted are your project. Attached are the doors.
Max
Looking sweet Max! I'd love to do CF doors. I know someone who had some and it's very tempting, just not allowed in my class. I noticed your bar is behind the door like mine, going to be a PITA to weld.
05-09-2018, 01:56 PM
