toddk911

And 3 inch and 3.5 inch.

fast951

A universal kit will not handle the change in temperature (Air & Water) that the DME uses.. Even with an Air Temp Sensor attached to the MAF... Ever wonder why some people have to adjust their signal massager all of the time?

You should get a MAF that is configured to your car and HP level. Also you need chips that are configured to the particular MAF, Injectors and that compensate for the unique characteristics of a MAF vs. a AFM...

Of course you can always experiment... Which is part of the fun anyway!

toddk911

I totally agree John and would love a Vitesse kit, just can't afford one right now and curious to look into other methods. I know the main selling point of your kits is the work, research and tuning have already been done by an expert like yourself

Which usually goes for anything technical. The materials cost is dollars, but you are paying the hundreds or thousands for the intelectual property.

AlexE

toddk911..... it is fun tinkering but it can be costly as well. I have read many threads that advocate throwing a combination together, but unless you know these cars really well you can set yourself up for more headaches and $$$.

Throwing a combination on a 951 and having it run is no big chore, but having it perform properly is another story (idle, WOT, AF ratios etc....)

Matt H

todd - to be honest I was going to build my own (it can be done for WAY less money than a new kit can be bought for). In the end, I found a good used kit and paid about 150 more than I would have to build my own. For 150 it was not worth the headache. There are guys on here who have old ones sitting in their garage. I think I will probably go to stand alone at some point in the future.
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toddk911

Yea, I think that is the way I will go. There have been a lot of recent deals on used MAF/MAP kits. But the prices still a little to much right now. Maybe for xmas

Pauerman

John, are you saying your SMT6 MAF kit is not a universal application?? The Perfect Power website states that the SMT6 will "tune ANY engine" and that "signals are modified from maps found within the unit..... tune via your PC, no rechipping need."

So, does your MAF kit require specific chips to operate properly in the 951 or do your chips just alleviate the need for fine tuning by the end user?

If other "universal" MAF kits that use inlet temp sensors are unable to "handle the change in temperature (Air & Water) that the DME uses.." and "some people have to adjust their signal massager all the time" then your kit doesn't have this problem because....??? Don't you use an inlet temp sensor with your MAF kits??

John, I hate to be so snarky about the stuff you're selling especially when there is such positive vibe about your products. Of course, there are those of us that are seeking alternative ways for piecing together a more cost effective MAF setup, and to me, your pointers sure do make it sound as though a problem free MAF setup would only exist if purchased from you.

So, specifically programmed chips are required when upgrading to a MAF?? I wonder what Perfect Power would have to say about needing specific chips with the SMT6. Seems to me that for many years there have been a lot of people that have had success with their MAF kits using common aftermarket even stock chips.

John, I can understand that you want to promote your product, but I believe that if people are willing to put in the effort, similar hp/tq results can be achieved at a lower cost - it's not as complicated as some make it out to be.

fast951

No, the SMT6 works on many cars. However, if used to convert a AFM to MAF (signal massager) you still have to deal with the issues I stated. SMT6 or otherwise.

Yes I provide chips that work differently with the MAF...

Try it, then let us know what you conclude. Again, as I said, you can experiment and it's lots of fun. I'm just giving pointers so you are aware of some of the issues before starting...

I think you are confusing things. The SMT6 works with a AFM, a MAF or a MAP sensor. It's a signal massager, it doesn't care what sensor you have...
Perfect Power does not offer a MAF conversion kit to AFM equipped cars.. Where did you get the idea that they did? Maybe you know something I don't...
However, the DME uses additional sensors (water, air) in addition to the AFM/MAF... You will have to deal with it... What the DME does with the additional sensors is different between AFM and MAF...


My initial reply has nothing to do with promoting my products. I think you are taking it wrong! I wish you the best of luck in your effort, you seem to know what you are up against... Please keep us updated with your progress.

David Floyd

Remember what happened to Travis's car when Guru Racing was tuning in a new product, BANG !!!

So even professionals can make mistakes in tuning, us mear mortals have a greater risk of failure or sub-par performance

I for one vote to pay for a unit already tuned and ready to install. IMHO

In the end we each choose our own route, some good some bad.

951carter

You can easily build your own, I did. You tune it just like you would any other tuneable system. The MAF's are not calibrated to our cars anyway. I bought the arc2 (004) from SS and a ford MAF sensor from a breaking yard for $20. Where you run into problems is in the plumbing.......got a mandrel bender in the garage? You can always use PVC from Lowes ;-)

I eventually bought a custom made sensor from John Anderson that he had on his 500hp monster, but it uses Ford components just the same, the only difference is that the housing was custom cast with the bend needed to fit the 951 made into it. The only other plumbing I need is a straight pipe.

Long story short.......Yes, they ARE making $1,000 profit off of each MAF kit!!!

We thought about making them for people, but then we realized we would be spending ALL of our time tuning everyones car for them!

Matt H

You got it. An exhaust shop can make the pipe you need. I was quoted 40 dollars. Remember tuners are buying new MAF's which are considerably more than 20 bucks plus the purocil plus the chips (most come with a new set). It does add up but there is a lot of profit in them once you have the kit laid out. Not that I mind profit. They have a right to make money.
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AlexE

2 ways.

1. You pay someone to do the work for you.
2. You do the work.

How much is your time worth ?

Tomas L

Since I have not diassembled the DME code (yet) so I can only guess what it does with these sensors. Here is my somewhat educated(?) guess.

For the DME to know the mass flow in an AFM equipped engine it has to compensate the volume flow signal for the air temperature. If Danno is right about this the DME also uses the air temperature for cold start enrichment. With a MAF you still need the cold start enrichment but you don't need (or want) temperature compensation for the flow signal since it is already a mass flow signal. To work around this you would need a custom MAF chip that disables the density compensation but keeps the cold start enrichment.
This is probably the only real incompability problem when using a MAF with a non MAF chip that I can think of. Yes, it is probably easier to tune with a chip that is programmed with a correct MAF signal flow curve but you can work around that with a piggyback.

Why a MAF engine would treat water temperature different than an AFM engine I don't understand. I would by surprised if it did. Any ideas?

Tomas

951Tom

951carter, can you be more specific on the Ford MAF to use? I'm guessing one from a late 90's 5.0 Mustang??? Thanks

Matt H

It doesnt really matter. I would use one from a lightening pickup as they are the largest that Ford is using right now. The new lightening is either 90- or 95mm. Most of the 5.0 guys ditch the stock one and switch to Pro-M units.
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