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Ok so more positive progress tonight. I now have spark (see video below).
Following Stan's advice I first pulled all the plugs. Immediately I could see fuel in the #1 cylinder through the plug hole. So much so that I decided to siphon as much out as I could with my Mityvac. I got about a 1/2 ounce. The fuel was pretty dark probably due to it emulsifying some of the carbon deposits on top of the piston. Check out these pictures and let me know if I should be concern with those little carbon granules in the mix.
All of the other cylinders were considerably drier so I didn't bother trying to siphon them. Could this mean that the rings are not as tight on 7 of the 8? I think this is the case because one issue I do have now is that there is fuel in the oil. I can smell it on the end of the dip stick. What's the move here? Is it ok to try to start it this way? Before driving it I plan to change the oil ($70 bucks literally down the drain). Or should I do it now before trying to start it?
The endoscope camera I posted about finally arrived and I used it to take video of each cylinder. The first video is cylinders 1 thru 4 and the second video is cylinders 5 thru 8. You can see the fuel in some of the cylinders. Please let me know if you see anything else that would concern you.
With the plugs out loosely place paper towel over each plug hole, pulled the fuel pump relay and cranked it over a few times.
Next I torched the ends of the spark plugs to burn off any fuel deposits. Hopefully they are fine since they were just wet with fuel and had not seen any combustion.
After the plugs cooled down I tested one of them in the #1 plug wire for spark. And boom! Spark! The video below was with my new coil and wires. I did change over to the old coil and an old wire with similar results. Let me know if that spark intensity/color looks good.
At this point I called it a night. It's getting pretty late here. Tomorrow, since I have the plugs out, I am going to do a compression test. Then if that looks good I'll put it all back together and try to start it first with the fuel pump relay still out in order to burn and residual fuel that did not evaporate overnight. And hopefully, fingers crossed, this thing will run for the first time in a long time.
Finally I made a couple videos to document the fitment issue I am having with the new set of Beru wires. Neither the coil end plug nor the spark plug end plugs fit good compared to the original wire set. The coil end plug boot is longer than the original and the fit is loose and the spark plugs physically do not go in as far into their boots as the originals. Nor do they "snap" into the meta receptacle inside the boot. Has anyone else had this issue? Here is the plug P/N. Can someone verify that this is correct for a 1984 Porsche 928?
I trust Roger to know what is correct but these came in a Beru box that had a different part number which said Made in France. These are clearly marked made in Germany. I will contact him about this tomorrow. I'm hoping there are different sets for the different years of 928s and I just have the wrong ones cause I'm concerned about the bad fit.
Nate if you want to keep that new wire set follow the directions I posted in a previous post for swapping the ends .
Do you know how much oil you put in? IE where the level was indicating on the stick? having fuel in the oil will not hurt anything up to a point.
It was a common practice to dilute aviation oil during cold weather operations by adding fuel into the crankcase to thin the oil before shutdown.
That said it should run but i am more concerned about the amount of fuel in the cylinders .
Maybe it is a stuck injector and jumpering the fuel pump is what caused the flood,
I would jumper the fuel pump and see if any cylinder fills up,
if so then you need to figure out why, it could be an injector is leaking, or
Otherwise it could be one of the dampers or FPR leaking fuel into the vacuum lines.
make sure to remove the coil wire so no errant spark will fire a fuel filled cylinder.
^ I did a complete oil change. So there is 8 qts of VR1 20W-50 in there.
I will jumper the FP tonight and see if there is a stuck injector. All of the injectors were reconditioned at WitchHunter, however they did sit for months before I installed them. I had them in individual ziploc bags and sprayed them with WD-40 while they were stored. But I guess its possible that #1 injector is stuck open. I also squirted a little ATF in each cylinder last year when I got the car, since it likely hadn't run in a decade. I think some of that fluid you see in the videos is the ATF.
I will also pull the vacuum lines on the FPRs and the damper and see if I an smell any fuel.
Not sure if swapping the ends is viable. When I removed the original set I accidentally pulled one of the plug wires out of the end. See the picture below. The receptacle was crimped on the end of the wire. There is no way to screw the new wire into that unless I am missing something?
Don't be alarmed if the car smokes badly for the first 20 minutes or so with that ATF in the chambers. Just FYI. My car smoked badly on the fresh engine for quite some time.
After the wash down with gas, you want a little light coating of WE-40 or similar in the combustion area. Then, with the plugs out, crank it some, and you'll see more fuel vapor woosh out. You're likely still rich. Then you can do the running fuel pump test, and check each jug for a run-on injector. If you don't find one, button it up with good plugs and wires, and try to fire it. I would leave the FP relay out, and see if it'll pop off with sprizt of carb cleaner first. If you get that, then go the fuel pump route and see if your fuel metering will operate smooth. It's best to try working from the lean side to rich so you don't foul plugs, and jugs with excess fuel, which sounds like it may already be a problem.
I don't know if your year has an enrichment injector in the intake but if it does, you'll want to check that as well, because the enrichment injector will run with the starter cranking. Sorry, just don't know a lot about this year of car.
And yes, there will be quite a bit of smoke from the tailpipe and from off the headers as the collected oil burns off there too.
I remember that feeling when mine ran for the first time. There is nothing better than bringing a car back from the dead and knowing it was your work that got it there!
G'day Nate, this is problem solving at its best!!! Brilliant vids.
I would not get to "hung up" on the rubber boot side of things until you have got her fired up.
I had similar issues with my coil/spark plug wires, (trying to track a slight miss on No4) I simply removed the boots so that I could physically see the contact, thereby eliminating that particular problem.
It finally runs! After probably more than a decade this neglected piece of machinery is quiet no more! It took a year to get to this point and it was worth it. My wife was a huge help. She stayed up late these past 5 nights to help out and be my key turner while I stayed within arms reach of the Halon.
Thanks everyone for your awesome help and encouragement. Each piece of advice lead me closer to this moment. This community is incredible and I am proud to be a part of it. Special thanks to Wayne Strut who emailed some vital info on timing. That was the final piece to the puzzle. With everything going on I forgot timing 101 and just inserted the distributor randomly with out getting it to TDC. Wayne guided me through that.
I don't have a 27mm socket so I had to use the starter to ghetto bump it to TDC. I used the jumper on the starter relay with a light switch and it actually worked great. I think I got it pretty close.
After getting the timing set and cap and wires back on I pulled the FR relay once again and the wife cranked it up. It ran instantly for about 5 seconds. I may have shed a tear, dunno. Then plugged the fuel pump relay back in and bingo!
I let it run for about 10 minutes. Super smokey just like was mentioned. Burring off the ATF and other decades old stuff. I was able to adjust the idle and get to about 800 RPM. Oil pressure stayed pegged at 5 bar (atm?). Is this normal? Temp and voltage looked normal.
I took for a short 5 mph around the block so it does go in gear (at least reverse and second). Brakes work, at least to the point where they will stop it form 5 mph. Suspension creaky but I'm sure that will settle out a bit with miles.
So this is great. Now it's just down to the details. And then driving it, a lot!
05-18-2017, 05:26 AM
