When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I found the problem tonight. And it was one of those, "Oh yeah dummy" moments. So after following all the good advice from you guys I narrowed it down to a bad starter relay. I swapped it with the horn relay and she turns over like a champ now. As soon as I was swapping relays I remembered that the first day it arrived last year the horn didn't work. I read that you could swap it with the starter relay so I did. I just forgot to swap it back. My memory is good for 12 minutes, not 12 months.
Well that is the good news. The not so good news is that it didn't come to life. Here is a video of it turning over.
I'll have to start the no-start troubleshooting tomorrow. My initial guess is that it's not getting spark. But I'm sure it could be a dozen of other things. I doubled checked the spark plug order and the injector connections and that's all correct. Friday I verified that the fuel pump is running and I can hear fuel going through the system. However I do not have a fuel pressure gage nor did I measure the flow volume per the WSM. Could low fuel pressure cause it not to even cough? Also I only have 2 gallons of gas in the tank now. Any reason that could be an issue? Seems unlikely. How about the EFI relay? Is it common for them to go bad?
Sounded like you had a slight cough at ~7 second mark. Any smell of fuel out of the tailpipe?
After cranking, recommend removing a sparkplug and looking in the cylinder or at the plug to see if it's wet with fuel. That will at least rule out injectors squirting.
FWIW - I'd charge the battery every evening after testing 'til you get this sorted out just to make sure it's topped off and not part of the problem. It seemed to give up the ghost pretty quick.
Sounded like you had a slight cough at ~7 second mark. Any smell of fuel out of the tailpipe?
After cranking, recommend removing a sparkplug and looking in the cylinder or at the plug to see if it's wet with fuel. That will at least rule out injectors squirting.
FWIW - I'd charge the battery every evening after testing 'til you get this sorted out just to make sure it's topped off and not part of the problem. It seemed to give up the ghost pretty quick.
Couldn't smell any fuel but I did not put my nose right up to it. I agree, good idea to check the plugs. And if no fuel will need to listen for the injectors clicking.
Yeah I need to put the battery on the charger each night. That video was from about the 10th cranking.
Just went through this drill. If you are working by yourself get an inductive timing light and a noid light so you can easily validate spark and injector pulse while cranking.
Just went through this drill. If you are working by yourself get an inductive timing light and a noid light so you can easily validate spark and injector pulse while cranking.
I have a timing light. I do need to look into getting a noid kit. Have any tips on the best way to get the little metal retaining clips for the injector connectors back in? It was easy when I had the fuel rail off because I could flip it over. But trying to get those buggers seated from underneath seems like it would be a biatch.
Originally Posted by drscottsmith
Double check a good solid connection to the CEL panel (from the wiring harness connectors, in addition to checking the relays.
-scott
Thanks Scott. I did have the CE panel out during the refresh. I'll make sure to double check that.
Originally Posted by Mrmerlin
spray some ether into the intake and crank it
I did try that last night to no avail. Pulled a spark plug tonight and its getting lots of fuel.
Troubleshot a little more tonight. I pulled the #1 spark plug and verified their was fuel. So the injectors are squirting.
I went through the Electronic Ignition System troubleshooting guide in the WSM (pages 28-11 thru 28-19 in my book). These are the same steps that are listed here about halfway down the page.
The lowest multi meter reads is 200 ohms max scale, so when it came to measuring the resistance of the two white barrel resistors the results were inconclusive . The values to be measured are 0.4 ohm and 0.6 ohm. When measuring on the 0.4 ohm resistor my meter would start at .5 ohm then in about 10 seconds run up to about 1.2 ohms. Same thing on the 0.6 ohm resistor but it would stop at about 0.9 ohms. I just need to get a more accurate multi meter and recheck. All of the other checks in this WSM section were correct. So nothing standing out as a possible issue in this check. However if the resistors were bad could that cause a no start?
One of the other questions I have is what wires are supposed to go to the (+) and (-) terminals of the ignition coil? When I got the car the black wire with the purple stripe was on the (+) terminal so that's where I have it on the new coil. As some of you know the '84 wiring diagram does not have color codes for the wires. Apparently the '83 diagram does, but I searched for one and could not find it. The Ligeti page only starts with '84. Anybody have a source for an '83 WD?
Also this may be a dumb question, but does the coil need to ground itself to the chassis through its support bracket? If so that could be my problem. The new coil I got from Roger is smaller in diameter than the blue one I removed. So small in fact the support bracket will not hold it snug. So to remedy this I added some compressible foam tape to the bracket (you can see it in the photo above). So this is essentially electrically insulating the coil body from the chassis. In the photo above I have moved the coil out so it was easier to test. I know it tapers and gets fatter near the top, but it still is too loose without the tape.
And one last issue is with the Beru wires I got. The coil plug end does not fit well at all. I pushed it all the way on and it doesn't feel snug and only takes light pressure to remove it. Whereas the W. Germany Beru plug I replaced fits very snug and almost creates a vacuum suction when you push it on. Anybody else experiencing this issue with the new Beru wires?
Because I am an idiot, I had to look at the 1984 wiring diagram in my Morehouse CD set. Yep, no wire colors.
So, I looked at the 1983 Current Flow diagram:
Going by this diagram, you are backwards. Black goes to the (+) terminal, and black/violet goes to the (-) terminal. Black wire, source of +12VDC, comes from the 0.6 ohm resistor. Black/violet wire, ground for the ignition coil, goes to the ignition control unit.
As well, I think you are OK with the foam in the coil bracket. The coil body is full of insulating oil, so I don't think it needs to be grounded to work. Also, the current flow diagram does not show any grounds going to the body of the coil.
Hey, PM me with your address, and I will send you a decent DVM!
and pull the plugs since they are all fouled,
use a torch to heat the tips ,
crank the engine to clear the cylinders.
put a plug into the wire and ground the electrode see if you have spark
Because I am an idiot, I had to look at the 1984 wiring diagram in my Morehouse CD set. Yep, no wire colors.
So, I looked at the 1983 Current Flow diagram:
Going by this diagram, you are backwards. Black goes to the (+) terminal, and black/violet goes to the (-) terminal. Black wire, source of +12VDC, comes from the 0.6 ohm resistor. Black/violet wire, ground for the ignition coil, goes to the ignition control unit.
As well, I think you are OK with the foam in the coil bracket. The coil body is full of insulating oil, so I don't think it needs to be grounded to work. Also, the current flow diagram does not show any grounds going to the body of the coil.
Hey, PM me with your address, and I will send you a decent DVM!
Thanks for the diagram! That helps a lot. I don't know what Porsche was thinking when they made the WD for '84. My two biggest weaknesses in old car restoration skills are painting and spark chasing. And it doesn't help when there are just a bunch of black lines running around everywhere.
and pull the plugs since they are all fouled,
use a torch to heat the tips ,
crank the engine to clear the cylinders.
put a plug into the wire and ground the electrode see if you have spark
Thanks Stan. After Seth sent me the flow diagram I jumped back in the garage and swapped the wires but still no fire. I need to get a spark tester. The plugs are definitely fuel soaked. I suspect they should clean fines since they are brand new and haven't seen any heat yet. I will try to the coil swap as well. Also going back to the old W. German Beru coil lead.
So after 3 days and about 20 attempts I'm pretty sure it's flooded. I've read two schools of thought on clearing the flood. One is the WOT technique. The other is to pull the FP relay and just crank, no WOT. What is your preferred method?
I'm not Stan, but I did get stranded by my 928 from flooding once. Fuel pump fuse method worked for me after trying it twice. I damn nearly jumped and clicked my heels, had I not been sitting behind the wheel.
05-16-2017, 05:03 AM
