I believe that is the current model - run the diagnostics at the direction of someone on the phone (who might be anywhere, might be an engineer, but is more likely someone with access to a form of artificial intelligence). The technician is skilled at doing whatever the guy on the phone says, but is not given the authority to do anything else.

Done well, it's potentially a good system for today's products. My inoperable AC/heat pump shows that executed poorly, it's not a good system.

 

All the 928 mechanics are gonna get replaced by robots.

 

The cars are already built by robots. Looking at the future of cars, think "modular", "replaceable", and "throw-away". At some point there will be a robotic repair facility that periodically swaps out 'worn' modules and installs refurbished modules. Down on power a little? The onboard controller signals the maintenance facility that the [choose component] is not supplying enough power (so needs a battery swap) or is drawing too much current for the work done (so needs a motor rewind), and schedules the vehicle to drive itself over at a convenient time for the update. What's a convenient time? When other vehicles in the meshed network are available to keep the fleet owners/lessors happy. No need for homes to have garages, since the vehicles will come on demand, in sizes and range capacities based on immediate needs.

Each module bolts to the tub from the bottom and plugs into the CANbus network backbone. No need for human involvement, as the same types of robots that built the car will be able to undo and redo their previous work on demand.

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How far from that are we right now? Ask a Tesla owner.

 

Mike, I work the floor level of what you speak. I am the Third Shift Maintenance Team Leader at a heavy stamping facility. The damage comes from both ends. For the most part, management 'up front' views Maintenance workers as drooling gorillas, whose knuckles drag the ground. All we are good for is parts changing.

At the other end, there is a shortage of technician candidates. Nobody wants to get dirty, or nobody wants to stick out the two year AS degree training program.

Yet, day after day, we keep the plant running, by hook and by crook. It comes from knowing the equipment, and being able to think your way through the problem. As well as beating your face against it for awhile...
People don't want to do that. They want an instant solution.

Society in general views blue collar workers as just assembly slaves, worker drones. We are not supposed to, or be capable, of thinking.

Your point about the AC is very well taken.

 

You mean like coming up with a shield for a headlight arm?

 

Exactly. A technician is not expected to be smart enough to come up with a solution like that. Yet, we are.

My feeling is the perception of society is part of the problem of the shortage of trained technicians in mechanical fields. In years gone by, it was quite honorable to be a skilled tradesman. Now, you are looked down upon, even having a nose crinkled up at you.

Skilled trades are not flashy, they are not high tech(in the sense of the internet and social media). People don't want that stigma.
Unless you are me. I choose to do what I do, and most years, I am knocking on 6 figures.

 

I think the problem is part of a much bigger issue. In essence we have become a "throw away" consumer society driven mostly by cheap labour in China. When the price of things new drops so much no one wants to pay for maintaining it so the trend is to throw away rather than repair. The thing may be made in China where labour costs are cheap but when used in Western society where labour rates are high the cost of repair compared to new cost is out of proportion.

Back in 1977 in the UK I purchased a two speed hammer drill for 35 pounds no questions asked when they were 70 pounds in the shops. Today 40 years later I can buy something similar for the equivalent of little more than 20 pounds but no longer made in the UK. If it packs up you chuck it and buy another one. Ironically my 1977 purchase is still going strong whereas a cheapo modern item more likely than not will pack up after a few years and when it does it would not be repaired even if spar eparts were available which more likely than not is not going to be the case anyway.

This business model seems to be endemic around the globe. Still possible to get quality kit but at many times the price. To be fair to the Chinese they are improving quality dramatically and do some things very good but the trolley jack I purchased last year bent a piston first time I used it. Managed to repair it and stop the thing from happening again by stopping the handle coming too close to the vertical and pushing the piston sideways when actuating next down stroke- but what a basic design error. I paid equivalent of $80 for the trolley jack- a quality item would have cost about 10 times that.

This is the world we live in. In the UK getting a decent plumber is nigh on impossible and when you do you have to pay through the nose for them. Supply and demand. If had my time to come again I think I would be a plumber or set up a plumbing franchise.

Crazy world!

 

Yesterday's comics - Plumber explaining to a housewife that he had originally wanted to be a brain surgeon, but couldn't afford the cut in pay.

Seth -- The true value of a good industrial maintenance tech is measured in dollars per second, where avoided downtime value is the inverse sum of ALL normal costs, minus raw materials. When I worked for a large consumer-products company, it took a lot of lecturing to help manufacturing management trainees (and many veterans) learn that. You are a financial burden right up to the point when something goes wrong. Wanna guess where I learned that PM is king?...

 

Oh yeah...I am 'non-value added.'

 

Work for a manufacturing company and have for over 35 years. My Dad worked there as well. In the late 80's and early 90's manufacturing changed. Everything was revamped so the work could be done with zero experience. Craftsman were eventually phased out. Currently completely robotic manufacturing is being implemented. They just finished a building where raw materials are brought in one door, with finished product and recyclable waste materials are taken out the other. The robots even unload and load the containers.

What I saw was...
The craftsmen had to tools and tooling to do their job. The learned most of what they knew from the other craftsmen and not some school somewhere.
The next generation came in and showed disrespect and acted like they knew more than the established craftsmen. The craftsmen just sat back and laughed at the younger know it alls. They couldn't teach them anything if they tried.
An example would be the tooling needed for different jobs. The craftsmen made their own when needed, quickly and efficiently based on their next job coming up. There was enough time available in the manufacturing process for this. When the newbies came in, instead of learning an making their own tooling they simply took the tooling from the craftsmen. Craftsmen started locking up their tooling. It got to where the non-craftsmen were spending entire shifts putting the tooling together to setup for a different part where craftsman did the entire new setup in 15 minutes.
Instead of training to have more craftsman so each worker could be much more efficient they went to tooling sets kept for each job with specific instructions of installation and setup. The tool crib that used to keep the raw materials for making tooling changed and increased staff to maintain the tooling sets for each job.
It was much less efficient than when craftsmen were doing the job because completely replacing the tool sets took longer than changing just the different tooling needed from one job to the next. AND where the craftsmen could easily maintain their tools (including keeping them sharpened) the non craftsmen had to take their worn tooling to the tool crib to be "fixed".

What I don't understand is this new move towards completely automated manufacturing. In the studies done when trying to increase production it was shown many times over the down side of using completely automated production was that it never increases it's productivity from the day it is implemented. Where using manual labor and craftsmen there always seems to be a way of increasing production.


To make this more relevant to the 928. My 928 GTS has been in the shop for over a year. It is a Mom and Pop independent Porcshe only shop. I am having the oil relief hole drilled in the oil scraper ring so it requires the engine being removed, torn down, and rebuilt and re-installed. It has been taking so long because they cannot get any mechanics. The ones they do hire don't last for a month because they are not willing to work. They just want to stand around and chat and text on their phones. Watch one once and it was like the guy was moving in slow motion. Looked to me like a new age button pusher asked to do a craftsman's job.

 

automation is about consistency and cost.
you can be pretty certain that the next 1000 pieces built will be identical to the previous if it's all done by robot. somewhere around here is floating a video of 928 production in maybe 1980...the bodies were welded together by hand in a lot of places. so no 2 928s are quite the same...

robots can keep working 24/7/365, dont get sick, dont need vacation, dont need overtime.
when you look at manufacturing wages in a lot of the industries going to automation it doesn't take a whole lot of hours/employee math to break even on a programmed robot. now you just need someone to fix the robot as needed and change the programming. and that person can do that on all the robots.

manual labor and craftsmanship isn't dead...but a lot of it has just moved away.
i used to work in the aviation industry and have been to many factories. would you believe that a lot of the structural reinforcements and panel "ribs" are still beaten by hand into shape over a wooden buck? think about that next time you fly on an Airbus...lots of the panels are "hecho en Mexico" this way.

 

The root of this discussion is engineering. The first objective of engineering is to make things easier. We mustn't complain too much when it succeeds. (I'm the first to complain when it fails.) The stuff we need (?) gets better and we can have more of it.

We 928 owners are interested in something that is not easy, almost deliberately contrary to that objective. I'm not sure what my point is - perhaps the need to keep our thoughts in different bins.

 

Many good and relevant points here.

Fred, thanks especially for this statement here, which although I intuitively realized it, I like the way you formulated it:

One point I didn't see mentioned is the degree to which manufacturers actually don't want things to be repaired or used in a way that deviates from what they want or is for them profitable.

Like new cars that you have to "unlock" to change the battery, iPads that you simply can't transfer files to and from via Bluetooth, Nespresso machines that only work with chipped cartridges... I have gone so far now to inspect items I purchase for the type of screws used on the outside. If I see special screw heads requiring proprietary tools, I simply just don't buy stuff anymore unless I really, really have to buy it.

 

After several different stabs at things coming out of school the first time, the one that stuck was designing and installing manufacturing and packaging machinery. Project bonuses were based on productivity and total cost improvement. Organized labor had a different objective, thinking that "faster and easier and better" meant they had to work less and for less time, for the same or more money.

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A few decades ago now, I did some emissions work for a small Italian specialty car manufacturer in California. One of the imported factory engineers shared that his mother still worked for Fiat. Most factory workers had at least one second job, because the factory wasn't really full time. Over thirty unions, and each honored the others' grievances. Any stubbed toe anywhere meant the place shut down. Fiat was a pioneer in the use of robotic manufacturing, and no wonder. Even that small Italian specialty manufacturer uses robots and automation for some of their work these days, mostly for driveline stuff like engines and gearboxes. The "robots" are more accurate. But their "artistic" processes like final assembly and interior finishing is still very much hands-on. It's a great system for the tiny fraction of the market that's more quality- than productivity-driven. Even so, Toyota and Honda regularly blow them away in total-quality ranking.

 

What I have seen from both myself and some friends that introducing cars to our kids make a world of difference. My youngest worked on an 88 924 for his first car "none runner" so he could take it to school. It was a bonding time along with giving him a taste of something that did not envolve a keyboard.
My oldest we modified a Honda S2000 adding a turbo, clutch and suspension mods all of which brought us together. We are finishing up on his M-5 and for sure he does not want to do this for a living "going to grad school to become a doctor". We need to mentor our kids with the passion we have for cars. This is a different generation and planting the seed may not bear fruit for years but hopefully they may pass that passion on to there generation so not all is lost.
Till this day walking into a real machine shop still impresses me they are becoming rare in today's throw away society. Why would I just replace it when you can rebuild it, makes no economic sense if you add in the time. Let's keep the passion going and it starts with us and taking the time to fan the flame of our youth. You never know when that one question is asked and you take the time what it can turn into.