blueskies

Regarding the leaking replacement oil seals, I really don't understand why manufacturers make inferior seals and why vendors sell them, especially after they hear of the problems people have with them. At that point, the manufacturers and vendors should step up and make it right, which means paying parts and labor for doing the work the second time around.

I used to work as a building contractor. One year, the asphalt shingle manufacturer put out a bad batch of shingles. They blistered within a year or so. To my surprise, the manufacturer stepped up and provided new materials and paid for the labor to replace the defective product, without any argument. IMO, that should be the standard, not the exception.

So far I have not had experienced poor quality reproduction parts with the 928, but have lots of experience with poor reproduction parts for Austin Healeys. It is very frustrating when, after paying the money and doing everything right, the new part won't work as designed.

Ad0911

I must apologise to both Roger and Greg for sharing the adress where I bought the seals in Europe. I wasn't aware that by doing so I compromised your business. It just felt logical to me that European parts can be bought in Europe to avoid taxes when importing from the states. Be aware that any parts bought in the states must be imported into Europe. This adds approx 25% to the costs.
I cannot ephasize enough how high I value the excellent service provided by Roger and Greg.

worf928

Besides everything else everyone else has written to provide counter-point ...

Let's take a step back and think this through.

What's the downside of sharing hard-won knowledge (yours, Stan's, Sean's, mine) on the Internet?

What's your backlog for non-trivial client projects right now? Last we talked it was more than mine and mine's at about a year.

Are you losing business because folks are 'using' your secrets?

Are you going to lose business because folks now know to use the Elring seals?

Are you going to lose profit by not selling Elring seals?

(I doubt you were planning to sell them in meaningful quantities. What follows is not for you - I 'spect you know it already, so it's for folks that aren't in 'business'...

Your margin on those seals would be way, way less after packing and shipping than it is when you're billing labor hours. The opportunity cost is too much. You'll make more profit by billing labor hours and selling your custom-made parts. So, there's no downside to letting Roger - who's got a 'factory' setup for shipping parts - sell those seals.)

What's the up-side to sharing your knowledge?

More good-condition 928s all-over? Raises average prices? Brings in buyers who not only value recent maintenance but are willing to pay for it?

Folks read rennlist and know who knows what they're doing?

Those folks talk to 928 owners that aren't on rennlist.

Let's keep in mind that there is at least one lurker on the 928 forum who never posts for every forum member that posts even a bit.

How many of your clients are rennlist posters?

How many read rennlist but don't post?

If your clients are like mine it's about an 80% ratio of lurkers to posters.

Bottom line: sharing knowledge builds reputation. It's a marketing expense. Folks talk. They figure things out and those that don't DIY figure out who to bring their 928s to.

Has your backlog grown or shrunk since you became active on rennlist?

The minimal downside to sharing knowledge about 928s is offset by the upside.

I spend 40-50% of my labor hours with the 928 owner 'teaching them.' Imagine what your son might say about that? The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

I'm not losing business. My backlog's not getting shorter. These folks are doing the routine work now. They aren't scared to do a little work on their 928s and they aren't scared about owning and maintaining a 928 until it's RIP time: they know I've got their backs. They are eager to tackle projects and more-often-than not come to me to continue the 'education.'

No downside. I get to work on more challenging (i.e. fun) stuff than fluid changes.

worf928

There's no need to apologize. You've actually sent more business to Roger since he's going to be able to offer them at a lower price (because he - preseumably - bought in quantity and can amortize the transaction cost with volume.)

the flyin' scotsman

my care package arrived from Tx with the Elring RMS.

Shall pull the clutch and review........other than clean engine oil any other tips on install?

Mrmerlin

make sure the seal removal cut out is burr free ,
I use STP to lube the crank surface and the seal lip

mj1pate

This is by no means intended to divert an excellent technical solution thread. But I feel the need to mention this. After replacing the seeping rear crank seal on my 2006 Pontiac GTP a few years ago, using the upgraded seal and installation too; the new seal seeped right away. The front seal had begun seeping as well. Utter frustration followed, and I applied a container of ATP205. No affiilition. The seeping completely stopped within days and did not resume. Manufacturers statement is that its a polymer, not a seal softener. It had a consistency like water. User testimony is that once the crankcase is emptied of the product, that the seeping may resume over time. I applied 12 oz to my 86.5 auto trans in response to a pesky fluid pump seal seep and the seepage stopped completely. That was a year ago. I applied 6 oz to my sons decrepit civic engine over 2 oil change intervals. Oil consumption is believed due to old valve seals and I was encouraged of how the magnitude of usage decreased as long as its in the crankcase.
Having used this ubiquitously, I don't have anything negative to report yet. Further, this is likely not the only polymer based product out there, The mechanic I occasionally use has his own similar product that he uses almost to the excision of crank seal replacements.

sendarius

I just discovered this thread, and it makes me glad that I completely forgot about the RMS when I did all the work on my car recently.

As an Aussie, living in the most remote state capital in the world, there is simply no way that Greg will ever be working on my car - to my loss.
As a result, I GREATLY appreciate the fact that Greg is so generous with his knowledge.

Just as I am IMMENSELY grateful that Roger ships parts to this outpost of former empire..

Ad0911

I just viewed the Porsche 924 episode of Wheeler Dealer where Ant Anstead applies some lubrication around the crankshaft seal to ease the installation. Afterwards I looked at the WSM and didn't see any mentioning of applying lubrication prior to installation. Did I overlook this or is lubrication not required or even a bad habit? Will this lubrication cause premature leakage or will it help to install the seal properly so thereby decreasing the chance of leakage?

Another interesting repair was a modification of the WUR. But that's for another thread I guess.

davek9

The Shaft where the seal rides should not be dry when a new seal is installed, also lube the Lip that runs on the shaft
This will keep friction at a minimum until Engine oil reaches it.
Use Assembly Lube or STP as Stan suggested, I prefer assembly lube, even engine oil but not dry.

On the Front and Rear main seals; Always make sure you press the seal into the seat far enough to cover the Removal Notch with the outer rubber of the seal (this depth varies per seal manufacture).

Dave K

Ad0911

OK but the question really was if the outer diameter of the crankshaft seal should be lubricated prior to installation. This is what Ant Anstead does on this episode of Wheeler Dealers

GregBBRD

Yes. Nothing special required. A thin coat of engine oil works great.