928 Forum magazine
10-08-2003, 11:40 AM
#17
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In view of the fact that English is her second language, Nicole is allowed an occasional spelling error.
In view of the fact that she is human, Nicole is allowed an occasional typo.
In view of the fact that Nicole is more literate than 99% of Rennlisters IN SPITE OF THE FACT that English is not her native language, let only ye who are without sin cast stones.
I'll refrain from casting aspersions on the US educational system.
In view of the fact that she is human, Nicole is allowed an occasional typo.
In view of the fact that Nicole is more literate than 99% of Rennlisters IN SPITE OF THE FACT that English is not her native language, let only ye who are without sin cast stones.
I'll refrain from casting aspersions on the US educational system.
10-08-2003, 12:33 PM
#19
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watercooler wrote:
I think if you take into account that the Canadian subscriptions are shipped first class mail you'll see that $2.50 an issue isn't that far off. All stateside subscriptions are shipped bulk mail at an extreme discount. International subscriptions must be hand mailed first class in an envelope, which costs more and takes more time. Even if their is a little bit extra out of that $2.50 per issue postage, there won't be for long if the magazine keeps increasing in size as it is.
Nicole wrote:
The main thing that I hope our subscribers understand is that 928 Forum is here to just inform our readers of some other options are regarding parts, services, etc., and unless specifically stated in the magazine, we are not endorsing any of the products or services contained in the magazine. That is why we typically let the manufacturer/service provider introduce their own wares, that way the reader can make their own decisions based upon the presentation of the supplier. The primary purpose of the articles like Mr. Mueller's, Phil Threshie of 928 Developments, and Louis Ott of Ott Performance Engineering, is to allow these knowledgable folks to educate us regarding our cars. The articles are edited to be informative, not just a sales pitch.
I appreciate your offer of help Nicole, and will be happy to talk to you about your new found hair-loss problem
.
-Adam Birnbaum
928 Forum Editor
Unfortunately I won't be subscribing because an addional $10 usd for mailing 4 issues to Canada is nuts!
Nicole wrote:
However, I have read some negative comments on Mr. Müller on the German Porsche Fan Forum - mainly that it takes forever to get your unit repaired by him, not about the quality of the actual rebuild.
I appreciate your offer of help Nicole, and will be happy to talk to you about your new found hair-loss problem
. -Adam Birnbaum
928 Forum Editor
10-08-2003, 01:31 PM
#20
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Hello Adam,
Thank you for your reply.
Why must subscriptions to Canada be shipped first class mail? Personally I would not care if it took a few weeks to get an issue. That being said, when I have a letter mailed "regular mail" from the US I get it in about a week, and it is not much more than domestic. Why not just stick a couple stamps on the same packaging that US subscribers get?
I realize that shipping to Canada IS international, but it is not going overseas. I live less than 90 minutes from Buffalo.
Please don't take this as mud slinging at your effort. I have raised this issue because I have great interest, and wish to partake in the project. However I personally don't believe that the sharks north of the 49th parallel are getting a fair deal.
Thank you for your reply.
Why must subscriptions to Canada be shipped first class mail? Personally I would not care if it took a few weeks to get an issue. That being said, when I have a letter mailed "regular mail" from the US I get it in about a week, and it is not much more than domestic. Why not just stick a couple stamps on the same packaging that US subscribers get?
I realize that shipping to Canada IS international, but it is not going overseas. I live less than 90 minutes from Buffalo.
Please don't take this as mud slinging at your effort. I have raised this issue because I have great interest, and wish to partake in the project. However I personally don't believe that the sharks north of the 49th parallel are getting a fair deal.
10-08-2003, 02:57 PM
#21
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Adam, 928 Forum.
I subscribed (via paypal) about 3 weeks ago, and have not yet received any notification. Soon after subscribing you mentioned (in forum) that I could place my subscription toward back issues. I would like to do that.
Could you let me know if you received payment? My paypal account is Jdoerr7@hotmail.com
I'm very excited about receiving the 928 Forum. Great to read of the accolades. Thanks!
I subscribed (via paypal) about 3 weeks ago, and have not yet received any notification. Soon after subscribing you mentioned (in forum) that I could place my subscription toward back issues. I would like to do that.
Could you let me know if you received payment? My paypal account is Jdoerr7@hotmail.com
I'm very excited about receiving the 928 Forum. Great to read of the accolades. Thanks!
10-08-2003, 03:27 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Watercooler,
I appreciate your interest and your comments, and welcome any ideas to make the magazine more affordable.
The bulk rate shipping is handled by the printer. I'll be honest in telling you that I don't know how bulk rate works, but I've been told by the printer that our magazines get mixed in with other mailings that are shipped by the printer to make the mandatory minimum to get the rate. I've been told that the rate is only for national mailings. For the premiere issue I let the printer handle the Canadian mailings thinking they would go out bulk rate, and we got KILLED on the cost. They have a handling fee they charge in addition to postage and envelopes to send out the magazine. After that, I started to personally handle the individual international subscriptions to cut down on the costs. One thing that you may not be aware of: The stateside subscriptions are not shipped in envelopes. They have an address label put on the back cover and are sent out.
I'm not resistant to trying to find cheaper ways of mailing, and am open to any ideas within a certain degree of practicality.
LandsharkOz and 928GB have gone the extra step of setting up their own distribution network to cut down on costs. I send one box to England and one to Australia and from there they use local mail to distribute. This saved a lot off their subscription price. Of course there are still many that prefer to have their magazine shipped directly to their doorstep and they pay the full price.
Maybe get a P.O. Box in N.Y.?
I appreciate your interest and your comments, and welcome any ideas to make the magazine more affordable.
The bulk rate shipping is handled by the printer. I'll be honest in telling you that I don't know how bulk rate works, but I've been told by the printer that our magazines get mixed in with other mailings that are shipped by the printer to make the mandatory minimum to get the rate. I've been told that the rate is only for national mailings. For the premiere issue I let the printer handle the Canadian mailings thinking they would go out bulk rate, and we got KILLED on the cost. They have a handling fee they charge in addition to postage and envelopes to send out the magazine. After that, I started to personally handle the individual international subscriptions to cut down on the costs. One thing that you may not be aware of: The stateside subscriptions are not shipped in envelopes. They have an address label put on the back cover and are sent out.
I'm not resistant to trying to find cheaper ways of mailing, and am open to any ideas within a certain degree of practicality.
LandsharkOz and 928GB have gone the extra step of setting up their own distribution network to cut down on costs. I send one box to England and one to Australia and from there they use local mail to distribute. This saved a lot off their subscription price. Of course there are still many that prefer to have their magazine shipped directly to their doorstep and they pay the full price.
Maybe get a P.O. Box in N.Y.?
10-08-2003, 04:19 PM
#23
Former Vendor
Hello Adam,
while on the subject of mailing the magazine, I would like to point out that once again, I haven't received mine yet.
As a reminder, I am part of that select group that never receive the magazine on the fist try. We discussed alternatives last issue and I wanted to make sure you remembered.
Thanks, looking forward to the magazine.
Paul
while on the subject of mailing the magazine, I would like to point out that once again, I haven't received mine yet.
As a reminder, I am part of that select group that never receive the magazine on the fist try. We discussed alternatives last issue and I wanted to make sure you remembered.
Thanks, looking forward to the magazine.
Paul
10-08-2003, 07:30 PM
#24
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Nicole:
I was educated in the English school system, and through University I scored no less than excellently in English. That is "British" to all you Americans ;-) .... My English is excellent, if I say so myself. I don't usually bring this up but your comments are so harsh that I feel I must reply. The reason there are so many "grammatical flaws" in the 928 Forum is mainly that we are a volunteer Editorial Board. We edit and re-edit the mag for grammar, spelling and typography (not topography hehe). The problem is, we all have to earn a living as well.
Another very important reason for those same inconsistencies, is that we represent the World of 928 owners. Sometimes articles come in and while we realise (or realize, either) that the grammar or spelling or slang all leave much to be desired technically speaking, we allow it, because to alter it would delete the flavour (or flavor) of the piece, and lose the writer's spirit. Sometimes we even get input from German friends who write words like "critizism" when they criticise (or criticize) us ..... >;-)
We pay a lot of attention to grammar and such. Please keop 'em coming, but personally I do agree with you Nicole .... your criticism, especially publicly, is a tad harsh.
All the best, Grusse ....
Heinrich Smit
I was educated in the English school system, and through University I scored no less than excellently in English. That is "British" to all you Americans ;-) .... My English is excellent, if I say so myself. I don't usually bring this up but your comments are so harsh that I feel I must reply. The reason there are so many "grammatical flaws" in the 928 Forum is mainly that we are a volunteer Editorial Board. We edit and re-edit the mag for grammar, spelling and typography (not topography hehe). The problem is, we all have to earn a living as well.
Another very important reason for those same inconsistencies, is that we represent the World of 928 owners. Sometimes articles come in and while we realise (or realize, either) that the grammar or spelling or slang all leave much to be desired technically speaking, we allow it, because to alter it would delete the flavour (or flavor) of the piece, and lose the writer's spirit. Sometimes we even get input from German friends who write words like "critizism" when they criticise (or criticize) us ..... >;-)
We pay a lot of attention to grammar and such. Please keop 'em coming, but personally I do agree with you Nicole .... your criticism, especially publicly, is a tad harsh.
All the best, Grusse ....
Heinrich Smit
10-08-2003, 09:36 PM
#25
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Well, I have no intention to take this any further in this forum. I just used this platform, since my email exchange with Adam after the last issue did not yield any improvements. I thought I'd get your attention that way - and I did. Now it's up to the 928 Forum team what they make out of it.
Note to Heinrich: I was not referring to differences between British and US English. I am well aware of these differences, as I was taught British English in school.
So, you guys caught me making 2 spelling errors / typos in my message. That means my English is so bad I'm not competent enough to find all the spelling and grammar errors in the stories. I agree - this is a job that should be done by somebody who is qualified for it. Somebody who - unlike me - knows "proper" English. That's why my offer to help focused on the other areas of print production.
I stand by that offer, to help build an international reputation of excellence for the magazine. But I expect the 928 Forum team to approach me, if they are interested - I'm not going to force my knowledge and experience on them.
About my background in this area: I admit I was never formally trained in graphics design, typography, or print production (my Dad had talked me out of pursueing a career in Design, despite a lot of encouragement I had received from professional designers). I studied business administration, and got into dektop publishing when I wrote my thesis about the dtp market in Germany. I became a marcom manager in Germany, and started producing all my printed materials in-house on an IBM 386 with Windows 2.0 and the early versions of PageMaker. I was trained on PageMaker, and had tough critics (my father being one of the toughest). I read books and learned a lot the hard way - by doing, taking critizism and improving. I am [a little] more advanced these days, having produced numerous printed materials since, including product literature, newsletters, manuals, image brochures...
I come from a family of printing engineers. My father was trained as a traditional typesetter, before becoming an engineer. He focused on the business aspect and ran a print shop with 60 employees. My brother is a printing engineer, too, works in print production and logistics, and does high quality typesetting for an ad agency on the side. I also have numerous friends in the graphics design industry in Germany.
Note to Heinrich: I was not referring to differences between British and US English. I am well aware of these differences, as I was taught British English in school.
So, you guys caught me making 2 spelling errors / typos in my message. That means my English is so bad I'm not competent enough to find all the spelling and grammar errors in the stories. I agree - this is a job that should be done by somebody who is qualified for it. Somebody who - unlike me - knows "proper" English. That's why my offer to help focused on the other areas of print production.
I stand by that offer, to help build an international reputation of excellence for the magazine. But I expect the 928 Forum team to approach me, if they are interested - I'm not going to force my knowledge and experience on them.
About my background in this area: I admit I was never formally trained in graphics design, typography, or print production (my Dad had talked me out of pursueing a career in Design, despite a lot of encouragement I had received from professional designers). I studied business administration, and got into dektop publishing when I wrote my thesis about the dtp market in Germany. I became a marcom manager in Germany, and started producing all my printed materials in-house on an IBM 386 with Windows 2.0 and the early versions of PageMaker. I was trained on PageMaker, and had tough critics (my father being one of the toughest). I read books and learned a lot the hard way - by doing, taking critizism and improving. I am [a little] more advanced these days, having produced numerous printed materials since, including product literature, newsletters, manuals, image brochures...
I come from a family of printing engineers. My father was trained as a traditional typesetter, before becoming an engineer. He focused on the business aspect and ran a print shop with 60 employees. My brother is a printing engineer, too, works in print production and logistics, and does high quality typesetting for an ad agency on the side. I also have numerous friends in the graphics design industry in Germany.
Last edited by Nicole; 10-09-2003 at 12:16 AM.
10-08-2003, 09:40 PM
#26
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Ernest:
Absolutely, everyone is entitled to a friendly, warm and kind opportunity to speak or write as they please or are able. A spelling error is a spelling error and we all make those. Typos and grammatical errors too. Who cares? I heard Queen Elizabeth make one after Princess Diana had passed away, on worldwide television. You have to realise this is America. English here is Americanised. It is American English. Someone once told me that the finest, purest form of the English language is spoken here, in the Pacific Northwest, per an English Professor at the University of Washington. Well, it isn't.
English was invented in England, and dare I say, they speak it best. We are all human, we are all allowed an occasional typo.
I take issue with your, or anyone else's assertion that anyone is "more literate than 99% of Rennlisters". This is nice to say about 1% of us. But sadly, not true. Not true of me. Not true of Nicole. And not true of anyone else. I have met friends here who could never write an email without some kind of spelling or grammatical error.But they are wonderful, loving, kind, generous, selfless people. And they know their 928 better than I know mine.
You give the US educational system far too little credit. You just have to meet the products of it, to see its value.
Absolutely, everyone is entitled to a friendly, warm and kind opportunity to speak or write as they please or are able. A spelling error is a spelling error and we all make those. Typos and grammatical errors too. Who cares? I heard Queen Elizabeth make one after Princess Diana had passed away, on worldwide television. You have to realise this is America. English here is Americanised. It is American English. Someone once told me that the finest, purest form of the English language is spoken here, in the Pacific Northwest, per an English Professor at the University of Washington. Well, it isn't.
English was invented in England, and dare I say, they speak it best. We are all human, we are all allowed an occasional typo.
I take issue with your, or anyone else's assertion that anyone is "more literate than 99% of Rennlisters". This is nice to say about 1% of us. But sadly, not true. Not true of me. Not true of Nicole. And not true of anyone else. I have met friends here who could never write an email without some kind of spelling or grammatical error.But they are wonderful, loving, kind, generous, selfless people. And they know their 928 better than I know mine.
You give the US educational system far too little credit. You just have to meet the products of it, to see its value.
10-08-2003, 10:06 PM
#27
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Well, Heinrich, I taught at a private college for a year (not English), and could not beleive how poor the reading, comprehension, spelling, and math skills of many of those studens were. Granted, they all came from public schools, and were not the cream of the crop, but there were quite a few situations where I wondered how these kids can survive with a such lack of basic skills. The most shocking to me, however, was about math: Some students - in their 5th quarter - complained that we cannot expect them to know how to calculate with percentages. Ouch!
I refused then, and I refuse now to accept these people's standards.
They didn't really know what they didin't know, so they were pretty confident that they are actually quite smart. It was us teachers, who just tried to stress and torture them for no purpose other than making their life hard!
At least they were happy...
I refused then, and I refuse now to accept these people's standards.
They didn't really know what they didin't know, so they were pretty confident that they are actually quite smart. It was us teachers, who just tried to stress and torture them for no purpose other than making their life hard!
At least they were happy...
Last edited by Nicole; 10-09-2003 at 12:14 AM.
10-08-2003, 11:57 PM
#28
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Adam...If postage is a problem to all, why not make the periodical available to members in "E" form ? Downloadable from the Rennlist site in pdf or such. If security is a factor password it and issue a password to all members each quarter...Just an Idea....Cheers
Bill
Bill
10-09-2003, 12:58 AM
#29
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Nicole I realise you are correct, European schools are excellent. Just because America speaks English, doesn't mean that the culture is the same here as in other English-speaking countries. It took me many years to come to grips with that fact. When I started understanding America better was when I started viewing America as a foreign country in the deepest sense, ie just as different from what I knew, as Italy or Finland.
All the best
Heinrich
ps: Anyone who can teach the kids of today deserves a medal. Thanks for trying :-)
All the best
Heinrich
ps: Anyone who can teach the kids of today deserves a medal. Thanks for trying :-)
10-09-2003, 02:28 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
Bill wrote:
Don't speak too loudly Bill, you will re-awaken an argument that rocked the fledgling 928 Board down to the timbers way back when.
First, I don't think that postage is a "problem", its just a fact of life in producing a magazine.
From the beginning of its inception, (and I'm not going to even try to explain when THAT was), I think you will find agreement that the basis for 928 Forum Magazine was to publish a written periodical. To create something of substance beyond the information contained within it. The tactile sense of holding a magazine, the beauty of full color pictures on heavy paper, the smell of the ink on the pages, all of that is something we wanted tied in with experiencing 928 Forum Magazine. An E-zine wasn't going to cut it for us. We really wanted to create something cool. Downloading a PDF on bulk paper just isn't going to produce the same affect.
The board argued/discussed endlessly about posting PDF's of the magazine on the website before/after the periodical shipped, but in the end, the majority determined that we didn't want to undermind the magazine with an E-zine. I understand your sentiment Bill, and there are some on the magazine board that share your logic to some degree. It is a valid idea, and maybe someday that will be the way it is done. At this time, it seems that the majority of the board is content to present the material in the form of a written magazine.
With the 928OC starting to fire up, it probably won't be long until the 928 Journal E-zine starts to regroup. When it does, 928 owners will have a source to receive info in this kind of format.
Adam Birnbaum
928 Forum, Editor
If postage is a problem to all, why not make the periodical available to members in "E" form ?
First, I don't think that postage is a "problem", its just a fact of life in producing a magazine.
From the beginning of its inception, (and I'm not going to even try to explain when THAT was), I think you will find agreement that the basis for 928 Forum Magazine was to publish a written periodical. To create something of substance beyond the information contained within it. The tactile sense of holding a magazine, the beauty of full color pictures on heavy paper, the smell of the ink on the pages, all of that is something we wanted tied in with experiencing 928 Forum Magazine. An E-zine wasn't going to cut it for us. We really wanted to create something cool. Downloading a PDF on bulk paper just isn't going to produce the same affect.
The board argued/discussed endlessly about posting PDF's of the magazine on the website before/after the periodical shipped, but in the end, the majority determined that we didn't want to undermind the magazine with an E-zine. I understand your sentiment Bill, and there are some on the magazine board that share your logic to some degree. It is a valid idea, and maybe someday that will be the way it is done. At this time, it seems that the majority of the board is content to present the material in the form of a written magazine.
With the 928OC starting to fire up, it probably won't be long until the 928 Journal E-zine starts to regroup. When it does, 928 owners will have a source to receive info in this kind of format.
Adam Birnbaum
928 Forum, Editor