Guys with 4-post car lifts in their garages. I have questions
01-03-2016, 11:17 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
From the pictures I've seen online BYB's posts and runways look beefier and the squared post gave me the impression of being more solid, but that's not how engineering works. ...
An indipendemt certification that guarantees the claims made by the manufacturer is necessary, and there can only be one reason why BYB refuses to get one.
I'm disappointed to find so much trash talk on their websites because I don't really care about their opinions. I need lab tests and empirical data, I need to know how they were tested. How can Bendpak provide these certifications and BYB no?...
An indipendemt certification that guarantees the claims made by the manufacturer is necessary, and there can only be one reason why BYB refuses to get one.
I'm disappointed to find so much trash talk on their websites because I don't really care about their opinions. I need lab tests and empirical data, I need to know how they were tested. How can Bendpak provide these certifications and BYB no?...
I can think of at least two reasons why BYB doesn't seek independent certification:
- BYB cannot justify the expense of independent certification. BYB markets its lifts to hobbyists. The company may believe that their target market does not value independent certification enough to warrant the costs involved. Avoiding the cost of such certification is not an option for lifts sold to the commercial market. A commercial shop owner's potential legal liability for using an uncertified lift makes using such a lift a non-starter.
- BYB knows its lifts do not meet the standards for independent certification. The company may honestly believe the standards are wrong; that their design is better than meeting the standards would allow. Or, they may believe that the standards are out-of-date. (In the 1970's, OSHA's regulations prohibited the use of ice in drinking water. The prohibition dated back to the time when ice was obtained by hacking it out of frozen rivers and lakes and the impurities made the melted ice unsafe to drink.) Or, the company may believe the standards are the product of "regulatory capture", whereby the standards are designed to protect the interests of entrenched producers rather than protect consumers. Anyone care to defend the DOT regulations that prevented 8" H4 headlamps from being installed on US 928s? And, of course, the standards could be right and BYB could be producing an unsafe product.
My ONLY point is that the failure to obtain certification is NOT proof of an inferior product. It is, however, a very important data point.
01-03-2016, 11:27 PM
#62
Rennlist Member
Let me add my two cents here. We've had a BendPak HD-9 4-post lift since 2007, used frequently, never had a bit of trouble with it. It has both positive locks (air-operated in this case) and loose-cable locks, as do most.
For reference, my background is engineering 40+ years, mostly medically-related, and worked with a lot of very talented folks of various technical persuasions.
I have a few thoughts reading this thread: The first is that I believe certification is important when it comes to things that can squish you. Without some independent review, anyone can say anything.
The second is that I personally dislike and distrust negative advertising, the "trash talk" that we see all too often. BYB does it in spades, some of Bendpak's distributors do also, my solution is to ignore all of it and look for the positives.
Chinese quality is all over the map, they are basically where Japan was a few decades ago. The good news is that they build whatever you want, however you want, for whatever price you want to pay. There is a lot of high-quality stuff being built in China, by companies who carefully spec what they want, provide competent supervision and QC, and pay what it takes. That's one extreme, and there are plenty on the other end of the scale.
And certification is more than just checking the right boxes for how many locks, etc. I don't know the details but if that's an issue, then read the certification specs.
A 240v lift will always go up faster than 120v, that's just the nature of energy. Many motors can be wired for either if things change, check that.
For reference, my background is engineering 40+ years, mostly medically-related, and worked with a lot of very talented folks of various technical persuasions.
I have a few thoughts reading this thread: The first is that I believe certification is important when it comes to things that can squish you. Without some independent review, anyone can say anything.
The second is that I personally dislike and distrust negative advertising, the "trash talk" that we see all too often. BYB does it in spades, some of Bendpak's distributors do also, my solution is to ignore all of it and look for the positives.
Chinese quality is all over the map, they are basically where Japan was a few decades ago. The good news is that they build whatever you want, however you want, for whatever price you want to pay. There is a lot of high-quality stuff being built in China, by companies who carefully spec what they want, provide competent supervision and QC, and pay what it takes. That's one extreme, and there are plenty on the other end of the scale.
And certification is more than just checking the right boxes for how many locks, etc. I don't know the details but if that's an issue, then read the certification specs.
A 240v lift will always go up faster than 120v, that's just the nature of energy. Many motors can be wired for either if things change, check that.
01-04-2016, 04:36 PM
#63
Let me add my two cents here. We've had a BendPak HD-9 4-post lift since 2007, used frequently, never had a bit of trouble with it. It has both positive locks (air-operated in this case) and loose-cable locks, as do most.
For reference, my background is engineering 40+ years, mostly medically-related, and worked with a lot of very talented folks of various technical persuasions.
I have a few thoughts reading this thread: The first is that I believe certification is important when it comes to things that can squish you. Without some independent review, anyone can say anything.
The second is that I personally dislike and distrust negative advertising, the "trash talk" that we see all too often. BYB does it in spades, some of Bendpak's distributors do also, my solution is to ignore all of it and look for the positives.
Chinese quality is all over the map, they are basically where Japan was a few decades ago. The good news is that they build whatever you want, however you want, for whatever price you want to pay. There is a lot of high-quality stuff being built in China, by companies who carefully spec what they want, provide competent supervision and QC, and pay what it takes. That's one extreme, and there are plenty on the other end of the scale.
And certification is more than just checking the right boxes for how many locks, etc. I don't know the details but if that's an issue, then read the certification specs.
A 240v lift will always go up faster than 120v, that's just the nature of energy. Many motors can be wired for either if things change, check that.
For reference, my background is engineering 40+ years, mostly medically-related, and worked with a lot of very talented folks of various technical persuasions.
I have a few thoughts reading this thread: The first is that I believe certification is important when it comes to things that can squish you. Without some independent review, anyone can say anything.
The second is that I personally dislike and distrust negative advertising, the "trash talk" that we see all too often. BYB does it in spades, some of Bendpak's distributors do also, my solution is to ignore all of it and look for the positives.
Chinese quality is all over the map, they are basically where Japan was a few decades ago. The good news is that they build whatever you want, however you want, for whatever price you want to pay. There is a lot of high-quality stuff being built in China, by companies who carefully spec what they want, provide competent supervision and QC, and pay what it takes. That's one extreme, and there are plenty on the other end of the scale.
And certification is more than just checking the right boxes for how many locks, etc. I don't know the details but if that's an issue, then read the certification specs.
A 240v lift will always go up faster than 120v, that's just the nature of energy. Many motors can be wired for either if things change, check that.
01-04-2016, 04:57 PM
#64
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
As soon as someone can produce a photo or video of a Backyard Buddy lift that has collapsed and dropped the vehicle, bent or damaged a post or the lift structue, I'll then believe it important for them to achieve some form of certification. With everyone having a still and video camera within arms reach all the time now (smartphone), there would certainly be documented evidence out there of a failure had one occured, and I can't find it.
I did an extensive internet search prior to purchasing my lift and couldn't find a single post, picture, or video of a BYB lift failure. What I did find was a lot of people who owned the lift and loved it, as well as a lot of videos and photos of them in use with really expensive cars both on the lift and stored below the lift, and some testimonials and even as assembly and use video from Two Guys Garage or a similar show.
I also found a number of failure pics for open channel 4-post lifts and also some 2-post lifts. On the 2-post lifts, the top support gave way and the lift, even though mounted into a concrete floor, pulled up the concrete and dropped the car - maybe the concrete wasn't thick enough or reinforced or the lift was installed improperly, but when you think about how a two post lift works, you have a fairly long moment arm (2 of them actually) holding the weight of the vehicle and that weight is trying to pull the tops of the two posts in at the top. The only things that keep them apart are the top cross bar and the anchors into the floor. The higher you lift the vehicle, the longer you make the moment arm of the force trying to rip the lift base from the concrete anchor points. Although the 2-post lifts are the best for under-vehicle access, they just don't seem to be the optimal design for supporting a vehicle above your head, especially in a hobbyist-type garage enviroment.
I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with a BendPak lift as I have no direct personal experience with them, I'm saying that for me in this case, the certification or lack thereof of the BYB lift is not an issue for me and wasn't a factor in my purchase decision. They were also the only ones willing to customize one to meet all of my specs and requirements, including color choice of the powdercoating.
That was kind of long so you got more like a nickel instead of just my 2 cents
I did an extensive internet search prior to purchasing my lift and couldn't find a single post, picture, or video of a BYB lift failure. What I did find was a lot of people who owned the lift and loved it, as well as a lot of videos and photos of them in use with really expensive cars both on the lift and stored below the lift, and some testimonials and even as assembly and use video from Two Guys Garage or a similar show.
I also found a number of failure pics for open channel 4-post lifts and also some 2-post lifts. On the 2-post lifts, the top support gave way and the lift, even though mounted into a concrete floor, pulled up the concrete and dropped the car - maybe the concrete wasn't thick enough or reinforced or the lift was installed improperly, but when you think about how a two post lift works, you have a fairly long moment arm (2 of them actually) holding the weight of the vehicle and that weight is trying to pull the tops of the two posts in at the top. The only things that keep them apart are the top cross bar and the anchors into the floor. The higher you lift the vehicle, the longer you make the moment arm of the force trying to rip the lift base from the concrete anchor points. Although the 2-post lifts are the best for under-vehicle access, they just don't seem to be the optimal design for supporting a vehicle above your head, especially in a hobbyist-type garage enviroment.
I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with a BendPak lift as I have no direct personal experience with them, I'm saying that for me in this case, the certification or lack thereof of the BYB lift is not an issue for me and wasn't a factor in my purchase decision. They were also the only ones willing to customize one to meet all of my specs and requirements, including color choice of the powdercoating.
That was kind of long so you got more like a nickel instead of just my 2 cents
01-04-2016, 07:27 PM
#65
Burning Brakes
Anyways, short of an earthquake, I don't think the BYB is going anywhere from it's footing. It's that solid. And the sleeve-design is the reason.
No regrets here
01-05-2016, 07:40 AM
#67
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
My BYB is not. One of the advantages to the BYB 4-post lift us that it's movable with the caster kit. You place the pins into the holes at the bottom of each post and then attach a caster assembly of n each pin. Lowering the lift cantilevers the lift feet off the ground so it can be rolled. Empty, it can be moved by a single person and it's sturdy enough where I've actually moved ours with our 6,000 lb Infiniti QX56 SUV on the lift (needed a 2nd person to help push the weight).
That was another critical factor in my selecting the BYB lift because I'm the winter when the boat is in the garage, the lift us on one side, but in the summer when the trailer is stored on the lift it moves over 1 bay. I think my pics from earlier in this thread show it in both positions.
That was another critical factor in my selecting the BYB lift because I'm the winter when the boat is in the garage, the lift us on one side, but in the summer when the trailer is stored on the lift it moves over 1 bay. I think my pics from earlier in this thread show it in both positions.
10-12-2016, 01:22 PM
#68
Burning Brakes
Hey guys,
My recent purchase of a 928S has tipped me past the breaking point, and so I just ordered two Bendpak HD-9STs for my home garage. The cars I plan to store there are a 911SC (a little below Euro Height 49"), a 944 NA (also at track height, around 48.5"), my E46 BMW M3 (54"), and the 1985 928S (50.4").
I only have 113" from floor to ceiling (guess it was supposed to be 9 1/2 ceiling). The distributor said to add both cars' heights together, and then add 10" for the thickness of the ramp and to allow for the locks, which are apparently every 4" on this model.
So, using the M3, I come up with 54" + 49" + 10" = 113" exactly. Hmmm. Too close for comfort? Assuming I have nothing on the ceiling above the car roof (tracks or lights), and I think the track itself is about 4" thick, I should have a few inches above each car. Too close to comfort? The alternative is to figure out something else for the M3 and garage the P-cars only.
Thoughts?
My recent purchase of a 928S has tipped me past the breaking point, and so I just ordered two Bendpak HD-9STs for my home garage. The cars I plan to store there are a 911SC (a little below Euro Height 49"), a 944 NA (also at track height, around 48.5"), my E46 BMW M3 (54"), and the 1985 928S (50.4").
I only have 113" from floor to ceiling (guess it was supposed to be 9 1/2 ceiling). The distributor said to add both cars' heights together, and then add 10" for the thickness of the ramp and to allow for the locks, which are apparently every 4" on this model.
So, using the M3, I come up with 54" + 49" + 10" = 113" exactly. Hmmm. Too close for comfort? Assuming I have nothing on the ceiling above the car roof (tracks or lights), and I think the track itself is about 4" thick, I should have a few inches above each car. Too close to comfort? The alternative is to figure out something else for the M3 and garage the P-cars only.
Thoughts?
10-12-2016, 01:33 PM
#69
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Keep in mind that in order to release the locks on most lifts, you have to lift the ramp slightly to release the safety locks. I assume they factored this into the 10" they told you to add, but just something to be aware of. Considering you're borderline clearance, if you could go measure one that's setup so you can see exactly the lock spacing, ramp thickness, and how those relate to your specific car heights, that might be worthwhile.
10-12-2016, 01:38 PM
#70
Rennlist Member
While the idea of being able to stand up under the car is appealing, it isn't necessary and if one is 6'4" it may not be practical. Trust me. I am and have a four post lift. That being said, I don't feel the need to stand up--in fact, I really like zipping around on my wheeled work-stool. Sure, if you need to anchor yourself you'll get on your feet but working from a seated position is rather nice. It also makes it easier to get to the beer fridge afterwards...
I would expect that most lift brands are made on the same assembly line but, only those that are certified can be used legally in a service centre.
I would expect that most lift brands are made on the same assembly line but, only those that are certified can be used legally in a service centre.
10-12-2016, 01:58 PM
#71
Hey guys,
My recent purchase of a 928S has tipped me past the breaking point, and so I just ordered two Bendpak HD-9STs for my home garage. The cars I plan to store there are a 911SC (a little below Euro Height 49"), a 944 NA (also at track height, around 48.5"), my E46 BMW M3 (54"), and the 1985 928S (50.4").
I only have 113" from floor to ceiling (guess it was supposed to be 9 1/2 ceiling). The distributor said to add both cars' heights together, and then add 10" for the thickness of the ramp and to allow for the locks, which are apparently every 4" on this model.
So, using the M3, I come up with 54" + 49" + 10" = 113" exactly. Hmmm. Too close for comfort? Assuming I have nothing on the ceiling above the car roof (tracks or lights), and I think the track itself is about 4" thick, I should have a few inches above each car. Too close to comfort? The alternative is to figure out something else for the M3 and garage the P-cars only.
Thoughts?
My recent purchase of a 928S has tipped me past the breaking point, and so I just ordered two Bendpak HD-9STs for my home garage. The cars I plan to store there are a 911SC (a little below Euro Height 49"), a 944 NA (also at track height, around 48.5"), my E46 BMW M3 (54"), and the 1985 928S (50.4").
I only have 113" from floor to ceiling (guess it was supposed to be 9 1/2 ceiling). The distributor said to add both cars' heights together, and then add 10" for the thickness of the ramp and to allow for the locks, which are apparently every 4" on this model.
So, using the M3, I come up with 54" + 49" + 10" = 113" exactly. Hmmm. Too close for comfort? Assuming I have nothing on the ceiling above the car roof (tracks or lights), and I think the track itself is about 4" thick, I should have a few inches above each car. Too close to comfort? The alternative is to figure out something else for the M3 and garage the P-cars only.
Thoughts?
To get the car down you have to lift it enough so there is no weight on the locks so they can be released.
So you're working with a pretty tight situation there.
10-12-2016, 04:55 PM
#73
Burning Brakes
HD-9's runway height is 4 and 3/4, when you reach the desired height you have to raise the lift over the corresponding lock and then lower it until it rests on it.
To get the car down you have to lift it enough so there is no weight on the locks so they can be released.
So you're working with a pretty tight situation there.
To get the car down you have to lift it enough so there is no weight on the locks so they can be released.
So you're working with a pretty tight situation there.
10-12-2016, 06:01 PM
#74
10-12-2016, 06:13 PM
#75
How far do you have to lift it up to bring it off it's lock? 1/2"? 1". I'm figuring if the car is 4" below the ceiling (worst case) I would have that space to lift it and release the locks. At 4" off the ceiling, I figure I have 113" - 4" - 50" (car) - 4 3/4 ( ramp) = 54.25" below. That leaves 4.25 inches of clearance underneath, right?
Consider there are 4 locks (1 per post) and they're not perfectly aligned (because of grade) so you need some room to make sure all corners are lifted. Also when you push the button to raise the car is not so precise that you could do 1/2" increments.