mark kibort

Carl, Im trying to give you a reality check.. your time of 1:42.xx is near spec miata record time. very close anyway. its way off the level at which ive run the 928... transmissions, ratios, etc.. you have to start listening me to how you can handle the car faster and safer. right now, you are not able to pull the Gs but thats ok, so dont claim you can. whatever you are doing you are not running at the level that ive been running the 928 for many years.

all your times, except road america are around spec miata times. its not an insult, its just reality. those times are not particularly slow, but with 500hp and just equaling the cornering abilty of a miata (far below 2 gs) your lap times would be 10 seconds faster.

my times of 1:36 is my best, and the record spec miata time is 1:46 at laguna. similar differnces are at all the tracks in california. my average best time is in the 1:37s the avearage spec miata time is in the 1:48 range. If i ever run in the 1:38s, i have a small problem (usually tires) . ive run spec miata record times with NO brakes. and 400less hp than you !!

yes, you should be getting faster, but watching the video and hearing you make excuses frustrates me because what im telling you can help you in a HUGE way. there is no way you need to be worried about crashing out if you get a plan at the track. banging off the rev limiter, dive bombing the slower cars at the last min, torquing on the wheel during turns, shuffles steering are normal things i see while instructing. BUT, folks i help believe me and stop those techniques. they are much faster and much safer by doing so. Its like me telling you im going to "hone" with a ball honer, the bores of a SiAl block. its obvious to me, and im trying to help.

trust me Carl, the side issue here is to help you drive the car better . its in all of our best interest. #2 , the other issue is you cant claim you are pulling more gs than me (and i hope you are not) and think you have "g related issues" by your driving as fast as a top miata at this point, on 185 tires and 110hp. times of 1:46, 1:43 at mid ohio is Honda 2 records.. those guy are pylons for me during our races! dont use the excuse of sorting the car. the car is fine. But the main point of this, is dont sell products to fix things you "might" be seeing as problems. when there are people driving a LOT harder and not seeing the things you are trying to fix.

You are not "way faster" than a spec miata. you are very close to that speed right now. this wont change until you take some of my advice and trust me on this, it will make you safer and LOT faster. its not an insult, its reality check

mark kibort

record spec miata time at mid ohio pro course

Spec Miata Mark Bennett Mazda Miata 1:41.614 09/16/07

carls best weekend time at mid ohio

47 928 Carl Fausett 2 06:20.135 20 Laps 01:43.105


at the club course, spec miata record is 1:45

spec hondas run 1:42

German Touring 1 John Graber Porsche 944 1:42.367 08/15/1
944 Spec Neal Agran Porsche 944 1:44.401 10/04/1

honda challenge cars:

Honda Challenge 1 Andrie Hartanto Honda Civic Si 1:41.224 09/17/06
Honda Challenge 2 J. Allan Haggai Acura Integra type-R 1:43.866 09/17/06
Honda Challenge 3 Brian Ehmer Honda Prelude Si 1:44.706 07/09/06
Honda Challenge 4 Colin Botha Honda CRX Si 1:42.208 09/12/06

Then, at Gingerman.. Carl has the track record for unlimited GTS group.
German Touring Unlimited Carl Fausett Porsche 928 1:43.355
and during the same weekend,
Spec Miata Chris Price Mazda Miata 1:46.803
and:
German Touring 2 Zach Hillmann Porsche 944 1:38.188 06/28/1

German tourng 2 is a HP to weight ratio of about 14.5:1 this little 944 is running 5 seconds faster than Carl that same weekend!!! same track!... who do you think is pulling more Gs.....

CARL! thats a 165hp porsche 944 on DOTs at 2400lbs!

the only time ive run anywhere close to a German touring 2 time, was when i lost my brakes or had only one gear.

this is not about driver here , strictly about g forces of the car.... his or mine... I dont think anyone can logically argue that im pulling a HECK of a lot more G forces than Carl at any track he has visited.


by the way.. here is a video of Andre who ran a 2:05 ish time at thunderhilll in that car, (my time is in the 1:55s). he ran faster than Carls record at Mid Ohio at a time of 1:41. thi is to show the scale of how fast car is running around the track.

remember, Carl said he is pulling as many gs as i am... i dont see how with the lap times, even records. PLUS, 700hp, which means even less g forces in the turns!

Daniel5691

JWYATT....

Your engine bay is simply spectacular.
WOW!
Congratulations on a beautiful job.

Dan

mark kibort

Here's the deal.. Carl has a great product that looks fantastic.. not in question here. BUT, when someone says that it helps or fixes a problem, you better get your facts straight. putting rulers under the car and saying that you "know" where the leverage points are.... well you better get your facts there too. saying you pull more or equal gs..... you better get your facts there too if you are going to be credible.... for example... carls 16" lever arm is on a car full droop... my car , on the race track has the skids nearly hitting the ground under high g loading. I have a 110mm ride hight and have pictures of the car, with the car compressing 5" withi 800lb springs. this is proof vs two guys in an autocross on street tires.
if his calculations are off by a factor of two...AND, there is not even a calculation here. how do we know how much twisting force the chassis moves from? 16" was his leverage point, but it turns out a car on the ground, in compression , might be lucky to be slightly over the actual measurement he has posted. in other words, that theory is off by a factor of 2 -3 right from the start.

Here are pics of Anderson and me running down the corkscrew. both of us have near 800 to 1000llb springs ... also , side by side at sears point turn 2

when I say I pull more Gs than carl, its not about driving here its about forces on the car. you cant pull more gs unless you are running somewhere near as fast and car , through all his tuning and driving GTS-U records at the track, is not. not even close. and I don't think anyone would disagree here.

the point is...my car is running quite a bit faster than Carls.... no question .
I don't see any off the claimed inherent deficiencies he is theorizing. the cross bar, as nice as it looks does NOTHING better than the stock version. the lower support brace, as nice as it is and how much stronger it makes the lower chassis, does nothing in correcting a "camber issue" because there are not enough forces to cause one in the first place.
Until we get some factual data, these two products shouldn't be sold as anthing but bling.. well the lower one could be sold as protection for the alternator, but a cost of increased ride height for a race car.

bureau13

Well, I don't know what caused all the bent ones I've seen, on cars that do not otherwise appear to have been hit. Maybe they were, and didn't show it, I don't know....I just know I've seen them.

That being said, the primary reason I am thinking about buying it is bling...not gonna lie

bureau13

To that end, and maybe getting the conversation back in the direction it started: Does this brace reduce clearance between it and the intake tubes, etc when compared to stock? Also, there's something mounted to my stock brace...I forget what it is. It's clamped around the (round) bar...what is the recommended way of relocating that, or do people just clamp it to the square bar the same way?

I have an S3 if that makes a difference...

Ladybug83

I was thinking the same thing about the air valve and how would I re-mount it. Thanks for asking Daniel. And for reference, I just want it for "bling" too, just more subtle bling without the logo and painted/PCed satin black.

mark kibort

maybe jacking the car up on one side real high can twist the frame in a way that can bow the cross member. (far exceeds any force that the tires at max grip could cause)
ive been racing the car for 20 years and mine is straight and its the original bar.
it bends very easy by the way... the force it really is trying to counteract is compression or extension of the two shock towers. it does a fine job of this

MjRocket

Jesus Christ Mark!...Let it go.

mark kibort

we all jump in to validate claims. if you are going to make a statement, you better have the data to back it up, and dont make it up either! so, i would have no problem if the cross bar was for looks and replacement. you start quoting performance gains and im going to challenge it, and why wouldnt I or anyone else here. That's the beauty of the list. no one wants to buy something with claims of doing something that it cant. Im not seeing any of the deficiencies of the stock cross bar as far as performance and Im taking the 928 in another realm of stress compared to what has been shown here.
its a discussion, not an ad board... if he doesn't want to prove to the world, then don't post in an area where folks can comment and question.

MjRocket

I get that Mark, and your thoughts and opinions of course are welcome, valid and respected. I just feel that you have made your point, no need to beat a dead horse so to speak.

mark kibort

Agreed.. i know i can go overboard...but thanks for the props too.
All this would be so much nicer over beers after a day at the track.
I just wish all of us lived closer so we could do all these comparisons at the track!

MjRocket

Agreed my friend.

Carl Fausett

That day will come.

Carl Fausett

Kibort:

Your "everything stock is perfect in all situations" mantra is tiring and not proven out by real-world experiences. This cross-brace is a good example. They are frequently bent, and even Porsche mentions it in the WSM. But - not good enough for you, right? So: a car designed for touring should be able to go racing box-stock, is that it? Right....

BTW: The cross-brace is in tension and compression BOTH. It gets bent under compression. I liken it to the rear camber discussion. Stick with the stock rear tires... no issue. Start going wider than stock, grippier than stock... well now we start to see trouble... rubber rear link bushings fail, camber out of alignment, stuff like that. Similar story in front. Do the bent cross braces appear on cars that are driven hard with big grippy front tires? Yes. Do we see bent ones on standard 928's with stock tires that are driven gently as a touring car? No, not so much.

Here's another example: the driveshaft clamp for automatics. Many hundreds of automatics never experience a problem. BUT - add wide rear tires, hard driving, maybe a HP adder or two: yep, now its a problem leading to TBF. The combination of the owner/driver and the modifications to the car have taken the car beyond its initial engineering design and intended use. A change is needed. Welcome to the world of after-market parts!

As to your driving analysis: The fact that your race car is the same race after race after race is a HUGE benefit. As a parts developer, I rarely have seat-time with the same parts and the same setup. But please - take videos from A and compare them to B - I cant do it - and make all the unsubstantiated ****-measuring claims you want. You seem to think your good at it.